1. Not for sure.
2. both are great but the DVD-ROM booktype for NEC is more welcome
3. depends on where you are located, however + and - media have alomst the same price

(in reply to sulfur)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulfur

Newbie questions:

1) Many of the media tested were burned at higher than rated speeds (with good results). Can I safely assume PI/PO will be even better if those were burned at rated speed instead?

2) If my prime objective is safe data backup of photos - wedding/honeymoon/vacation/friends/etc and not fast DVD movie backup & +R booksetting, is the NEC 3500 still a better choice than the Pioneer 108?

3) With this drive, is there a + or - media preference? It didn't seems so from the review. Will it make a difference if I plan to burn at higher speeds or always only at rated speeds? (in other words, for the same price should I buy a + or - TY 8x spindle?)

Looking to pick one up on the weekend. The price for both NEC & Pioneer are about the same locally (<5% diff).

Thanks.

1) we burned the tested media at the highest speed we could get from nec in every case. Of course, you will get much better quality scans if the writing speed is the media rated one and not the "device allowed" one. For example, TDK 8X media can be burned at 16X, but if burned at 8X quality scans are almost perfect... (i have actually done this, and quality scans from media recorded at rated speeds were excellent)

2) This issue is something that we can discuss for pages... Unfortunately, i will have to wait for a new firmware update to answer this, but again, both drives are great... I am expecting users to post their opinion on this one though!!! For now, i can only say that if you have to choose between these two (NEC vs Pioneer), you have to choose between a very-very good drive, and an excellent one!!! I am a little confused myself, so let's just wait for the upcoming NeC vs Pioneer quality head-to-head comparison that we will make...

3) Both + and - media format performed great... I wouldn't worry about this... You can look the quality scans we got for both formats, and of course users are welcome to post their own experiences/problems with both media formats...

Hope i helped!!!

P.S.: to eleajar: although you are right at some point, and users' suggestions are always welcome to make this forum better, let's keep it down a little, shall we???

(in reply to sulfur)

quote:

DVD+RW media is recorded as DVD-ROM by default (cannot be changed by user).

quote:

yes, we are 100% sure... this applies to all NEC drives from 2500A to 3500A and to all TDK drives, from 880N to 1616N... Of course, no unofficial firmware is used, but only official firmwares

I have the original 2.16 firmware.
I recently burned a DVD+RW and I tested the result with DVDInfoPro, and it says the booktype is still DVD+RW.
Unfortunately it won't play in my stand-alone dvd player.

(in reply to Deleted User)

[Deleted by Admins]

(in reply to pierrearonnax)

awesome review. but no the tough question - 108 or the 3500? ;)

(in reply to Deleted User)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pierrearonnax

I have the original 2.16 firmware.
I recently burned a DVD+RW and I tested the result with DVDInfoPro, and it says the booktype is still DVD+RW.
Unfortunately it won't play in my stand-alone dvd player.

strange that you didn't post this image before but waited for some answer first... anyway... i've been doing some testing with several NEC clones the last few ours, and this booktype is not that easy to explain... I also tried some hacked firmwares...

We tested all the following drives:
NEC 2510A 2.15
NEC 2510A 2.16
NEC 3500A 2.07 (probably the same as upcoming 2.17)
TDK 880N
TDK 882N
TDK 1616N (all TDK drives with various firmwares...)

we used CopytoDVD and latest Nero 6, and what we got was DVD-ROM

THE RESULTS:

TDK 1616N 2.C7 is supposed to have DVD-ROM booktype setting for SL media by default. I burned 3 +RW discs, and 2 of them had DVD-ROM booktype, while the last one had +RW booktype
I then used TDK 1616N 2.77, 2.78 versions... again, the same

I then switched to NeC 3500 (both 2.16 and 2.07) and 2510A, and again, two discs were recorded as DVD-ROM and the last one was recorded as +RW. The +RW disc was the same disc in every case...

I then flashed the drive to the Maddog firmware 2.f8... again the same...

I then did something that made me understand what is really going on with this NEC bitsetting mystery...

I used only 2 +RW discs, the NEC 3500A (tried both 2.16 and 2.07) and the LiteON 1633S... I changed the booktype from the first RW media to DVD-ROM...
Then i recorded both with NEC 3500A... The discs retained their booktype setting... the first one was DVD-ROM and the second one was DVD+RW... This means that the booktype setting for +RW discs is automatically set to +RW or -ROM, BUT IT IS LEFT UNTOUCHED!!!

Because of pierrearonnax observation, we now have one more nice info for the 3500A that will clear things up a little bit more....

I know that this whole bitsetting issue for NEC drives is confusing, so, if everyone has any more questions about this, please post here...

(in reply to pierrearonnax)

so this is why all my +rw media type were written to dvd-rom booktype with my old good 2500A. And i thought i was lucky and i got a special modified drive. thanx for the info dude
will there ever be released a firmware for SL bitsetting/?

(in reply to kogos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eleajar

so this is why all my +rw media type were written to dvd-rom booktype with my old good 2500A. And i thought i was lucky and i got a special modified drive. thanx for the info dude

Yeap... I also contacted NEC about this and i got this info:
With ND-1000A and ND-1100A a burned DvD+R media will be characterized
automatically as DvD-ROM, but a DvD+RW will be characterized as itself.
The ND-1300A, ND-25x0A and ND-3500A marks DvD+R, DvD+RW, DvD-R
and DvD-RW as given, without any booktype changes applied. There`s no chance to change this settings.
I also observed that while writing a +RW disc, lead out data is written in a sec... maybe this indicates that booktype is not changed...

quote:

ORIGINAL: eleajar
will there ever be released a firmware for SL bitsetting/?

I certainly hope so, but noone knows for now.... The upcoming 2.80 firmware from TDK is supposed to support DVD-ROM booktype for SL media... Let's wait and see...

(in reply to eleajar)

I would also like to know "3500 or 108", but I accept the fact that this something we should find out with a little more searching.

(in reply to kogos)

Sorry for not posting the image the first time… (I had a little bit haste that time)

Thank you, kogos, for looking into the bitsetting issue.

Conclusion: You are saying that if I burn a DVD+RW in a other burner that supports +RW to -ROM bitsetting, that booktype for that single DVD is preserved in my 3500, but there is no chance in chaining it to -ROM at the moment without a second burner, even while it should be -ROM?

If that is so, then the review should be changed, unfortunately…

(in reply to kogos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulfur
1) Many of the media tested were burned at higher than rated speeds (with good results). Can I safely assume PI/PO will be even better if those were burned at rated speed instead?

Yes that is correct

quote:


2) If my prime objective is safe data backup of photos - wedding/honeymoon/vacation/friends/etc and not fast DVD movie backup & +R booksetting, is the NEC 3500 still a better choice than the Pioneer 108?

If you plan to use mainly DVD+R media, DVD-ROM booktype will give the highest compatibility rate

quote:


3) With this drive, is there a + or - media preference? It didn't seems so from the review. Will it make a difference if I plan to burn at higher speeds or always only at rated speeds? (in other words, for the same price should I buy a + or - TY 8x spindle?)

I would go for +R format, since much more media supported at 16X

(in reply to sulfur)

For sure 2.c7 supports booktype (DVD-ROM) with +R media, i believe kogos already tested DVD+RW media and gave his results

(in reply to emperor)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eleajar
offtopic: i don't want to offend anyone, but couldn't you just call him and give your compliments to him?

Thanks for your comments, i just felt that his work needed to compliemented in public, i don't find anything wrong, anyway there are much more important things to occupie than this

(in reply to eleajar)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pierrearonnax

Thank you, kogos, for looking into the bitsetting issue.

Conclusion: You are saying that if I burn a DVD+RW in a other burner that supports +RW to -ROM bitsetting, that booktype for that single DVD is preserved in my 3500, but there is no chance in chaining it to -ROM at the moment without a second burner, even while it should be -ROM?

yes, that is correct!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: pierrearonnax
If that is so, then the review should be changed, unfortunately…

and it will change (i just checked and it is already changed due to our well informed admins)... It's good to see that users actually question us and make small tests of their own, and not get our word for it. It's the only way to get better everyday... Again, thanx pierrearonnax for the add!
afterall, we tend to update our former reviews everytime new info comes around!!!... However, only small changes are needed this time since all the rest about +R and +R9 bitsetting are correct

(in reply to pierrearonnax)

Wow, your mistake has been corrected... you are fast...

(in reply to kogos)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kogos

quote:

ORIGINAL: pierrearonnax

Page 23 says that the default booktype for DVD+RW is DVD-ROM.
Are you sure this correct?

yes, we are 100% sure... this applies to all NEC drives from 2500A to 3500A and to all TDK drives, from 880N to 1616N... Of course, no unofficial firmware is used, but only official firmwares

Knowing 2.1x NEC firmwares, I was 100% sure that you were wrong (no SL DVD-ROM bitsetting by default with NEC 2.1x) but it was a so small mistake

(in reply to kogos)