RE: Buying a Plextor

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All Forums >> [Optical Storage] >> CD, DVD, BD Drives >> RE: Buying a Plextor

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RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/21/2002 1:26:37 AM

Clint

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Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
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quote:

Sony isn't making P-CAV recorders, it's just rebadgeing the Lite-On LTR-40125W. It supports P-CAV and Mt. Rainier.

Sony CRX-175A1 is a rebadged Lite-On 24102B.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You've got to be kidding?!!! Sony, would do such a thing? Man, who can you trust in the industry?!!!

Regards
Cal

I know.... Sad but true

But as John says, the industry is moveing very rapidly, especially the last year or so.

Sony's drives look cool, and when you have a Lite-On inside you just need MTKFLASH to turn it into an actual Lite-On drive in the ID-string, and in return, receive the latest firmware updates to rid the bugs and add more media.

*BUT* you are paying the extra for the "Sony" name...

_________________
You get what you pay for...

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 49

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/21/2002 9:19:21 AM

Laffin Assassin

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Status: offline

I would prefer to believe the rumour that has been around for a few years now that since Plextor made the 12x Writer they did a deal with Microvision the makers of Safedisk protection and that is why they don't do Safedisk now but will copy most of the rest. And Plextor Support Team will suspiciously not mention that Clone CD will do them.
Like Clint's signature says You only get what you pay for...... perhaps Plextor are getting payed and are not bothered about there users anymore. But this is not only my oppinion I have seen it all over the forums for years it could just be a hoax but is it who knows only the Plextor and Microvision? This is the main reason I changed back to the Yamaha 3200e.

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 50

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/21/2002 2:00:22 PM

john

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Joined: 12/24/2000
From: Greece
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If you notice all drives that use Sanyo chipsets cannot do SD2 100% correctly. We believe that there isn't such thing as deal(s) between manufacturers and copy protection companies. At least so far this is what has been widely accepted. Again none knows what the future bring.

Maybe Macrovision with SD3 will "disable" all recorders so no-one can backup such protected CDs? Maybe yes maybe not. We would have to wait and see... Thats the fun anyway

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 51

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/21/2002 3:11:56 PM

Laffin Assassin

Posts: 4642
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I never thought of it that way John so it could well be Sanyo who have done the deal with Microvision and it could be them that are forcing CDR manufacturers who use their drives not to do anything about Safedisk. That could be why TDK have changed away from Sanyo and gone to Lite-on with their 40x12x48. Your right about the fun part of it though John if they can put protection on I am sure we can find a way of taking it off. By the way it looks like the first Safedisk 3 will be on GTA3 so as soon as I can get my hands on it I will make sure that CDR-INFO are the first to hear about it.
Laffin Assassin

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 52

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/21/2002 8:15:28 PM

john

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Yes we also saw the supposed SD3 version, and for sure soon we will find out, as the game hits the market. Let the game begin (for one more time)

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 53

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 12:31:02 AM

Clint

Posts: 2151
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Yes we also saw the supposed SD3 version, and for sure soon we will find out, as the game hits the market. Let the game begin (for one more time)

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority

_________________
You get what you pay for...

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 54

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 12:36:43 AM

Clint

Posts: 2151
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

I would prefer to believe the rumour that has been around for a few years now that since Plextor made the 12x Writer they did a deal with Microvision the makers of Safedisk protection and that is why they don't do Safedisk now but will copy most of the rest. And Plextor Support Team will suspiciously not mention that Clone CD will do them.
Like Clint's signature says You only get what you pay for...... perhaps Plextor are getting payed and are not bothered about there users anymore. But this is not only my oppinion I have seen it all over the forums for years it could just be a hoax but is it who knows only the Plextor and Microvision? This is the main reason I changed back to the Yamaha 3200e.

I don't think so because the PleXWriter 24/10/40A and 40/12/40A can do SafeDisc up to and including v2.40.010 and (I think?) v2.51.020 perfectly. It was only when MacroVision introduced v2.51.021 with new regular bit patterns that the PleXWriter's failed. So no, I don't believe this is the case.

_________________
You get what you pay for...

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 55

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 12:50:43 AM

clawso1

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Joined: 11/13/2001
From: USA
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I must AGREE with you Clint, because up to this point Plextor drives didn't CHOKE while trying to copy SD2, which is an indication that they were keeping up with copying protected disc, but I think that they decided to get out of the race with companies like MicroVision. Remember this response I got back from Plextor support:

"We don't plan to 'address this issue'. We don't do anything to make our drives read copy protected discs, and we don't do anything to prevent them reading copy protected discs.

It just gets into a race between the drive mfgrs and the copy protection companies... they buy our drives and work out how to prevent discs from being copied on them. If we then develop some kind of 'workaround' to bypass their protection, then they just change their software again.

Usually a 'workaround' just ends up making more errors on discs, so we don't do that at all. We just make sure we write quality discs.

If you don't like copy protection, then the only way to get it resolved is to not buy copy protected software discs. If their income dries up, then those companies will either remove the copy protection, or go broke. This happend with floppy based games many years ago."

Plextor Support Team - Jack

Regards
Cal

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 56

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 5:19:07 AM

Laffin Assassin

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Yeah I believe the moon is made of cheese as well.
I used to be a Plextor Die-hard man just like you 2. But answer this they say
"We don't plan to 'address this issue'. We don't do anything to make our drives read copy protected discs, and we don't do anything to prevent them reading copy protected discs"

So answer this when they first released new firmware for the 12x why did it stop copying Safdisk 2 and since then this has always been an issue I know what you are going to say " It was nothing to do with Miicrovision but I will never believe that Plextor or as previously mentioned Sanyo did not do a deal with Microvision. This has been an issue for quite a few years now and choose what anyone says they will not convince me otherwise. I will just never buy another Plextor again now the are Overpriced, Over Rated and Over Microvisions Arse. But if it is Sanyo why havn't Plextor changed to Lite-on like Sony and TDK have just done? Anyway enough Said.
Laffin Assassin

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 57

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 5:35:29 AM

john

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Joined: 12/24/2000
From: Greece
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Actually Sanyo was the first ever manufacturer that addmited in public that their drives support DAO-RAW writing mode. Some other companies also advertise their "RAW" capabilities but not big companies like Plextor, Yamaha etc...The reasons are quite obvious. Copies always have been a nasty issue for CD-RW manufacturers and most of them try avoid discussing it.

Latetly there are some laws which forst manufacturers to pay % from sales to Artists, especially in Germany. Also with the upcoming laws in EU, things will get tougher for software companies that support such "RAW" features. Why you think CloneCD moved to Switzerland?

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 58

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 6:30:23 AM

Laffin Assassin

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I totaly agree with you mate.

You ask Why you think CloneCD moved to Switzerland?

They have moved to Switzerland to watch a good National Football Team
England 5 Germany 1

Oh dear I have just realised you are in Greece so I won't mention David Beckham.

{Joke!!!! This will cause some fun}

Edited by - Laffin Assassin on 05/22/2002 06:36:11

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 59

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 8:49:43 AM

Clint

Posts: 2151
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Yeah I believe the moon is made of cheese as well.
I used to be a Plextor Die-hard man just like you 2. But answer this they say
"We don't plan to 'address this issue'. We don't do anything to make our drives read copy protected discs, and we don't do anything to prevent them reading copy protected discs"

So answer this when they first released new firmware for the 12x why did it stop copying Safdisk 2 and since then this has always been an issue I know what you are going to say " It was nothing to do with Miicrovision but I will never believe that Plextor or as previously mentioned Sanyo did not do a deal with Microvision. This has been an issue for quite a few years now and choose what anyone says they will not convince me otherwise. I will just never buy another Plextor again now the are Overpriced, Over Rated and Over Microvisions Arse. But if it is Sanyo why havn't Plextor changed to Lite-on like Sony and TDK have just done? Anyway enough Said.
Laffin Assassin

You got this story through part of this article, here is a passage form it:
-----------------------
What's the conclusion of this?

First thought is, that this is a real hardware problem. Yep, sounds quite logical... but only quite!
If it really would be a hardware-problem, why can these sectors then be read in the burner? If the EFM-encoder would have messed the data, you won't be able to read this sector with any drive - including the writer itself.
Also there's something very strange regarding the firmware releases and the approach of SafeDisc2: It seems that this "bug" has been implemented with full intense in newer firmware-releases of some major CDR manufacturers! Affected by this are as far as I know Plextor, Sony and Teac. There seems to be an unholy "marriage" between Macrovision (the developers of SafeDisc2) and these manufacturers...
How I can prove this claim? Well, I did some tests here with my Plexwriter 1210TA: I downgraded the firmware to version 1.01 (which I luckily kept on my HD) and suddenly the writer was able to re-produce these weak sectors like a charm!
Not enough proof? Ok, here we go: I tested with various firmware releases for this writer and figured out, that firmware revision 1.04 seems to be the last "good" release. What a chance that Plextor has removed all revisions below 1.05 from their web page...
And another proof: Newer revisions of this writer (recognizable by a TLA number other than 0000) have been protected against such a firmware downgrade. You won't be able to flash a revision lower than 1.05 to the internal eeprom...
Somebody now discovered that the old firmware revisions still seem to exist on Plextor's servers. But somehow the file-size has changed. When a normal firmware-update package had about 530 kb, these packages only have about 440kb now... is this pure chance or did the guys from Plextor remove/change some stuff in these old revisions? Strange, strange...

Blindread/Blindwrite Author

---------------------

Laffin, I cannot explain this. I do NOT know why this happened. I have never owned a PX-W1210A/S so I can't comment. But I know where your coming from and your argument.

I am NOT a Plextor "die hard". I just like their quality and commitment to the customer. In fact I even ordered a Lite-On LTR-3215W which should be here by Friday. I know how to turn it in to a LTR-40125W....hehe (without any differance to the "actual" 40X you buy in the shop!). Best part about it is P-CAV writing

But I will (al)most certainly buy the next Plextor, because I love their "fit and finish" something that Lite-On lacks.... Even if it fails latest CD v2.51.021 (MOHAA) and up (cause I'll have my 32x Litey for that

). BTW, the last SD2 revision the Plex 24X & 40X could do perfect without the need for AWS is in fact v2.51.020; as found on Tiger Woods Golf 2002. So indeed no evidence to support your claim that Plextor are wroking with Macrovision. If that was the case, Plextor wouldn't have had an even "Partial" ability to write regular bit patterns (SD2.XX.XXX)...

_________________
You get what you pay for...

Edited by - Clint on 05/22/2002 08:52:42

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 60

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 9:00:12 AM

Clint

Posts: 2151
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

why havn't Plextor changed to Lite-on like Sony and TDK have just done?

Because Plextor have always and will always make their own drives. Why should they take the easy way out like TDK and now Sony, Traxdata, Verbatim etc.

Their attitudes are: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!".

There would be a huge outcry in the CD recording world if professional users found out Lite-On were the guts in the new PleXWriters, Plextor would loose their market share quite considerably. Besides, we need stiff competition against Lite-On to make burners faster, better, more reliable, better quality and of course *CHEAPER*.

_________________
You get what you pay for...

Edited by - Clint on 05/22/2002 09:01:45

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 61

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 11:07:01 AM

Laffin Assassin

Posts: 4642
Status: offline

Hi Clint
No I did not get it from the Story you have posted although even though it is a very good story and thank you for posting it for everyone to read it does agree with my own thoughts after a number of years searching the forums and reviews and making my own mind up.

As for "Because Plextor have always and will always make their own drives. Why should they take the easy way out like TDK and now Sony, Traxdata, Verbatim etc. Their attitudes are: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!".

As for Plextor making their own CDR's yes I agree with that but when is all said and done all they are is a Re-badged, Different Firmware and re-modified and better put together Sanyo in a very nice case have a look inside one of the 24x TDK and the Plextor 24x they look virtualy the same.

As for "There would be a huge outcry in the CD recording world if professional users found out Lite-On were the guts in the new PleXWriters, Plextor would loose their market share quite considerably. Besides, we need stiff competition against Lite-On to make burners faster, better, more reliable, better quality and of course *CHEAPER*".

Plextor are already losing there market share and the others which have gone to Lite-on are catching up. That is something Yamaha will never do go with Lite-on.

Just as a last minute thought I can't wait untill Yamaha release their new writer from what I have read this is going to be some writer and I am sure CDR-INFO will be the first place to read a good review. I am going to get one the moment they are available so I will let you know what I think.

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 62

RE: Buying a Plextor - 5/22/2002 12:39:50 PM

john

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From: Greece
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We don't know much about the new Yamaha drive, but for sure it will have unique features (like the printing technology), faster recording speeds than 48x Z-CLV drives and possibly other interesting features.

Plextor is not a big company as LiteOn. That's why you see a lot of new drives from LiteOn and not for Plextor. Plextor designs new models carefully cause even their drives have high quality they still have to sell drives and of course keep up with the competition.

For sure competition makes manufacturers to design better drives, lower prices and please our needs

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority

(in reply to Javeryt)

Post #: 63