is there any relation between the two? after reading the cdrinfo writing quality article i found out that in yamaha f1 lower burn speed produces lower jitters. so i decided to try to burn my audio cd with the speed of 4x using my yamaha f1. when i'm checking the burn quality using CD Doctor the C1 average is higher than the 1 i burned in fullspeed. the media that i'm using is mitsubishi 4-48x sonic azo. can anyone explain this?

Slower is not always better. You could try the audio master format since you have the CRW-F1 drive, it produces superb results.

If I'm not using Audio Master mode on my CRWF-1, I usually write at 16X, I have found this to be a great quality speed for the drive.

(in reply to y2net)

I aggree with MP3Mogul. Usually a the 16x writing speed gives good results, but it also depends on media and writer of course.
Jitter measurements are made on the analogue RF signal just after reading. So high values could create errors which will lead to C1 or C2 errors.

(in reply to y2net)

I'll add my voice to this one as well

Though I am currently unable to test jitter errors in any way with my hardware, judging from the jitter testing provided by this site, and the C1/C2 error testing done by myself and a small handful of other sources, I would have to say that burning at 12x/16x is the best way to go for quality. This of course can change depending on the media and the drive though.

(in reply to y2net)

Thanks for all the replies . But I still confused a bit here. According to you all higher speeds might produce a better results for audio cd in some cases, but why the jitters test that done by this site showed lower speeds produced lower jitters. I hope the writer/writers of the of the Writing Quality article will jump in to give some hints.

(in reply to y2net)

We do not say that higher speeds produce better quality. Of course writing at 40x or 52x is not recommended for audio. Speeds such as 12x/16x are not considered as high. What we have seen is that usually burning at >16x produces high jitter. However, in some cases, 8x or 4x give better results, and this depends on the recorder.

As for your C1 results with the F1 drive, try writing a disc at 12x or 16x and measure it again. Please let us know of your results compared to 44x writing.

(in reply to y2net)

I can easily give you that analogy. The CRWF-1 is an EXCELLENT audio recorder. I have not experienced any COASTER with writing an audio CD at 4X-44X.

I have found that with the "media" that I have, the best all around writing speed is simply 16X (this is of a personal nature) different medias, will produce different results.

I have found, that the difference in writing on a "certified" 48X disc media" at 16X versus 44X, there are approximately 12% more C2 errors at 44X vice 16X. However, it should be noted, that a normal CD player ignores these errors, all audio CD's are filled with errors, that a CD player (commercial) ignores.

I am afraid that we have become "overcome" with C1 C2 errors, while they are important with games/data, they are not necessarily important with audio cd's.

Some would say this is an "invalid" point, however you may look at it, the basic "cd player" does not care about these errors, and they are ignored, and the music is played flawlessly.

With the "Audio Master" writing of the CRW-F1, these errors are substantially reduced, and a high quality audio CD is produced. The CRW-F1 is capable of writing in audio master mode at both 4X and 8X.

(in reply to y2net)

Well, I wouldn't say that a commercial CD Player could play an audio CD flawlessly regardless of the amount of C1/C2 errors on it. Eventually, you *will* notice a difference, and if there are enough errors, or a large amount of errors in the TOC, then the CD-R will be unreadable, even in REALLY good players.

However, it takes a *LOT* of errors for this to happen, and most people don't have to worry about it. As MP3 Mogul said:
"I am afraid that we have become "overcome" with C1 C2 errors, while they are important with games/data, they are not necessarily important with audio cd's."

(in reply to y2net)