CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (Full Version)

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bcool -> CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/16/2002 4:57:53 AM)

[:(] This has been a problem ever since I left DirectCD for InCD. Since I now use Nero for burning CD, I decided to switch to InCD for packet writing. Here is the annoyance:
1.) CD writer is HP SCSI CD-Writer+ 9600 Firmware 1.0a
2.) DVD-ROM is TOSHIBA SCSI DVD-ROM SD-M1201 Firmware 1R08
3.) InCD itself works just fine. Problem is that the CD-RW disc is not accessible (readable) in the DVD-ROM. It always was with DirectCD.
4.) The Toshiba DVD-ROM is multi-read compliant and with UDF reader, it should see the CD-RW formated by InCD.
I installed ver2.04-200101181745 of bsudfrdr.vxd which is the UDF reader that Nero provides. No luck! CD-RW is not accessible in the DVD-ROM.
5.) So I tried a trick. It worked only once, if you can believe that: I replaced ver2.04 of bsudfrdr.vxd with ver3.25 bundled in the EasyWriteReader software (for CD-MRW) from Nero. When I booted up into Windows 98SE, the CD-RW was accessible and readable in the DVD-ROM. Later when I returned to the same drive and disc, not accessible anymore. And that is the way it is even as I write this.
By the way, the CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x is perfectly readable on my friend's CD-ROM --- I believe he has Adaptec UDF reader installed.
Anyway, this has annoyed me for some while now. Can someone give me some clues as to why the readers cannot assist my DVD-ROM to see/read the file system that InCD has placed on my freshly made CD-RW.
Windows 98SE 4.10.2222A
InCD ver 3.51.61
InCDUDF Reader 3.25 or 2.04
ASPI for Win32 Adaptec 4.71
Nero Burning Rom 5.5.9.17
Please help if you can.




KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/16/2002 2:05:22 PM)

Before proceeding further, see the threads at www.cdrlabs.com:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7417
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7419
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7454

On XP, reading standard non-CD-MRW (i.e., non Mt. Rainier) discs seems achievable with EasyWriteReader (reliability is another question). For CD-MRW, apparently nobody cares, but I persist.

On 98SE, I didn't have time to test the latest InCD.

Before proceeding further, we need more details (I'll supply mine as needed; we might eventually compare our IOSYS directories when I test 98SE). How come you're using InCDUDF Reader instead of EasyWriteReader? (See my post on the identity crisis of the latter.)



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/16/2002 2:51:50 PM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

Before proceeding further, see the threads at www.cdrlabs.com:

How come you're using InCDUDF Reader instead of EasyWriteReader? (See my post on the identity crisis of the latter.)


My God, EasyWriteReader causes a WINDOWS PROTECTION ERROR at Windows 98SE boot up. It's an offending .vxd that EWR installs in iosubsys. Incidentally, it's NOT the bsudfrdr.vxd file but the other .vxd EWR places there that is the culprit. Children, can we say 'HALT'?
Anyway, thanks for the links. I'm off to do some careful ready at cdrlabs.



KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/16/2002 3:21:59 PM)

Also see

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53258&highlight=EasyWriteReader

The setup is outdated by now, but some info could be useful.



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/16/2002 3:27:33 PM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

Also see

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53258&highlight=EasyWriteReader

The setup is outdated by now, but some info could be useful.

Thanks once again. I should make clear that I'm not interested in the least in the functionality of CD-MRW discs. I don't have a MT RAINIER drive nor do I have MRW media. I just want to view my CD-RW's in the second drive (Toshiba DVD-ROM). Just to be clear. Seems like a simple request to me (especially since I could when I used DirectCD).



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/16/2002 5:21:34 PM)

I'm beginning to think that this may all come down to the fact that the BHA built reader that Nero distributes just doesn't work with my model of DVD-ROM. BTW, I even disabled the InCD UDF file system driver in \iosubsys\ and tried each version of the reader 'bsudfrdr.vxd' that I have. Nothing worked. In fact, it appears that the UDF file system driver is a dynamic driver and doesn't even load until some InCD task is performed. Guess I'll keep lurcking about but I'm nearly ready to let go of this issue. At least InCD is working fine and I do have access to my CD-RW's in the HP writer.



KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/17/2002 4:59:08 AM)

Some good news: I've just solved my 98SE problem via latest updates. Even if you are no longer interested, I give some details to help others.

I'm now using Nero 5.5.9.17, InCD 3.51.61 and EasyWriteReader 3.3.2.0 (the current one from Ahead's website).

My Lite-On LTR-48125 VS08 sits in a FireWire (Oxford chipset) external enclosure connected by a PCMCIA card to an old laptop (but top of the line in mid '99) running Win98SE (freshly installed in August after an HD failure, with all the MS updates, including IEEE 1394 storage supplement). It's got a Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-C2102, with DMA on, and Auto insert off (BTW, for your SCSI drive, one could play with Disconnect and Sync data transfer; did you try?).

Having already Nero 5.5.9.17 on my box, I started by removing InCD 3.31 and EasyWriteReader 1.0.0.1. Then an install of InCD 3.51.61 put into C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS the two files

BsUDF.VXD 3.5.16.1 B.H.A.
CDRBSVD.VXD 4.9.1.0 B.H.A.

and afterwards installing EasyWriteReader 3.3.2.0 added

BsUDFRDR.VXD 3.25 B.H.A.
INCDRM.VXD 1.0.0.7 Ahead

My final C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS lists as follows:

BIGMEM DRV 9,952 04-23-99 10:22p BIGMEM.DRV
ESDI_506 PDR 24,406 04-23-99 10:22p ESDI_506.PDR
HSFLOP PDR 25,741 04-23-99 10:22p HSFLOP.PDR
RMM PDR 13,242 04-23-99 10:22p RMM.PDR
SCSIPORT PDR 23,650 04-23-99 10:22p SCSIPORT.PDR
APIX VXD 29,497 04-23-99 10:22p APIX.VXD
ATAPCHNG VXD 11,311 04-23-99 10:22p ATAPCHNG.VXD
CDFS VXD 59,133 04-23-99 10:22p CDFS.VXD
CDTSD VXD 13,884 04-23-99 10:22p CDTSD.VXD
CDVSD VXD 32,419 04-23-99 10:22p CDVSD.VXD
DISKTSD VXD 18,889 11-17-99 5:36p DISKTSD.VXD
DISKVSD VXD 10,194 04-23-99 10:22p DISKVSD.VXD
DRVSPACX VXD 57,642 04-23-99 10:22p DRVSPACX.VXD
NECATAPI VXD 9,926 04-23-99 10:22p NECATAPI.VXD
SCSI1HLP VXD 19,270 04-23-99 10:22p SCSI1HLP.VXD
TORISAN3 VXD 11,067 04-23-99 10:22p TORISAN3.VXD
VOLTRACK VXD 18,491 04-23-99 10:22p VOLTRACK.VXD
NEROCD95 VXD 39,882 09-01-02 2:28a nerocd95.vxd
BSUDF VXD 254,660 10-24-02 10:41a bsudf.vxd
CDRBSVSD VXD 12,573 10-28-02 12:10p CDRBSVSD.vxd
BSUDFRDR VXD 114,367 11-16-02 10:05p bsudfrdr.vxd
NTMAPHLP PDR 9,849 10-12-99 2:56p NTMAPHLP.PDR
INCDRM VXD 23,715 11-16-02 10:05p incdrm.VXD
23 file(s) 843,760 bytes

So far everything works OK; in particular, both CD-RW and CD-MRW formatted with older and current versions of InCD are read by the DVD-ROM drive.

Note that, even if you don't care about CD-MRW (Mt. Ranier), standard CD-RW formatted discs can't be read on a DVD-ROM drive without EasyWriteReader on 98SE (XP doesn't need it).

Here are additional points, which may or may not help you, but could be useful to others:

1. Although my daughter insisted on installing Windows Media Player 7.1, I removed its Adaptec burning plugin (but without disabling automatic updates, MS can still destroy your setup). Stay away from WMP 9 until the dust settles. Same for the Veritas plugin for WinAmp.

2. As for ASPI, the latest version isn't always best, and you could use ForceASPI to play around with candidates. (BTW, in my case Nero InfoTool only reports three original MS ASPI files.) And of course don't forget about the latest versions of BIOS and drivers for your motherboard, etc.

3. Can you test an IDE DVD-ROM in your box? If it works, you might consider switching.

Hope this helps. If more info is needed, let me know.



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/17/2002 2:56:27 PM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

Some good news: I've just solved my 98SE problem via latest updates. I'm now using Nero 5.5.9.17, InCD 3.51.61 and EasyWriteReader 3.3.2.0 (the current one from Ahead's website).


[:D]Most excellent. Thank you for so much detail. I'll continue to experiment and report back on progress. I do know one thing for the moment: this little file "INCDRM VXD 23,715 11-16-02 10:05p" causes a Windows Protection Error at boot up on my Windows 98SE box with InCD installed. I will look into this further.
FYI:

Directory of C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS
APIX VXD 23,115 07-17-02 3:54p APIX.VXD
BIGMEM DRV 9,952 04-23-99 10:22p BIGMEM.DRV
BSUDF VXD 254,660 10-24-02 10:41a bsudf.vxd
CDFS VXD 59,133 04-23-99 10:22p CDFS.VXD
CDRBSVSD VXD 12,573 10-28-02 12:10p CDRBSVSD.vxd
CDTSD VXD 13,884 04-23-99 10:22p CDTSD.VXD
CDVSD VXD 32,419 04-23-99 10:22p CDVSD.VXD
DISKTSD VXD 18,809 04-23-99 10:22p DISKTSD.VXD
DISKVSD VXD 10,194 04-23-99 10:22p DISKVSD.VXD
ESDI_506 PDR 24,406 04-23-99 10:22p ESDI_506.PDR
HSFLOP PDR 25,741 04-23-99 10:22p HSFLOP.PDR
NEROCD95 VXD 39,882 09-02-02 9:13a nerocd95.vxd
RMM PDR 13,242 04-23-99 10:22p RMM.PDR
SCSIPORT PDR 23,650 04-23-99 10:22p SCSIPORT.PDR
SMARTVSD VXD 17,986 04-23-99 10:22p smartvsd.vxd
TRM390W MPD 33,344 04-24-00 1:21p TRM390W.MPD
VOLTRACK VXD 18,491 04-23-99 10:22p Voltrack.vxd
17 file(s) 631,481 bytes

Thanks again!
EDIT: In this capture, I have udfreader temporarily uninstalled.



KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/17/2002 8:49:42 PM)

Concerning the differences in our C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS listings:

1. My unsorted dir output also gives some indication about the order in which the various files were added to IOSUBSYS (this is not perfect however as DISKTSD.VXD was subsequently updated and NTMAPHLP.PDR somehow dangles at the end).

2. One major reason for our differences is that I installed the MS Windows 98 Second Edition 1394 Storage Supplement from

http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/1394/Default.asp

I needed it for FireWire, but apparently it also improves some other I/O aspects as well, and I've not heard any complaints about it. My advice is to install it; it shouldn't create additional problems, it might actually help, and it would make our setups closer.

3. The ASPI aspect might be more difficult to troubleshoot. Don't forget that Adaptec doesn't care about compatibility with other companies, and Ahead can't be expected to test everything that Adaptec offers.

4. We have some timestamp differences in NEROCD95.VXD; not sure if this is a pecularity of Nero installer or the fact that 5.9.9.17 had two subversions (I used the latest one).

5. Do you know the origin of your TRM390W.MPD? Adaptec again?

If nothing else works, you could try other UDF readers. My memory is fuzzy; I tried several, and some of them read non-MRW discs but deactivated MRW in InCD formatting, so I removed them, but since you don't need MRW, you could try. Here names like Software Architects (SAI) ring a bell, but not loud enough. Try Google.

Don 't give up!



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/17/2002 11:04:47 PM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

Concerning the differences in our C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS listings:


TRM390W.MPD=SCSI host adapter driver from Tekram
NEROCD95.VXD= is version 4.5.0.14 (I'm using Nero ver. 5.9.9.17)
ASPI 4.60 (1021) is allegedly installed correctly and fully functional (I reverted to this version from ver 4.72).

I'll keep researching the issue. The process is always enlightening for me overall - so I don't mind too terribly much. Thanks a lot.



KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/18/2002 9:34:51 PM)

This is a link for Software Architects ReadCD-MRW

http://www.softarch.com/us/products/cdmrw.html

Apparently the free V1 has no MRW support, but you don't need it. If I remember correctly, it did read InCD CD-RW under my 98SE.



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/19/2002 10:32:56 PM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

This is a link for Software Architects ReadCD-MRW


no dice! Thanks anyhow. As I've suggested before, this could very well boil down to the fact that my DVD-ROM (1999)Toshiba SCSI model SD-M1201 may =NOT= be multi-read compliant. If it is not, then all the tricks in the world are not likely to make this DVD-ROM read a CD-RW formatted in UDF - no matter whose reader I install.
In the past when I used DirectCD, I believe it was the fact that DirectCD would finalize the CD-RW (re-write the data in a format readable by my DVD-ROM) that made me think my DVD-ROM could read native UDF with a reader.



KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/20/2002 10:12:26 AM)

So why don't you check the SD-M1201 specifications? Google immediately came up with

http://www.toshiba.com/taissdd/techdocs/pdfs/psm1201.pdf

but I could only "View as HTML", not very readable.

Are you saying that my '99 notebook Toshiba drive is more capable than your SCSI miracle? It can't read any CD-RW, or just UDF ones?



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/21/2002 6:33:02 PM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

So why don't you check the SD-M1201 specifications? It can't read any CD-RW, or just UDF ones?


just UDF. Other CD-R/CD-RW formats are fine. I have the spec sheet on the drive, but it isn't explicit concering "multi-read" compliant.
maybe you can glean something from the following:
3. Specifications
3.1.Performance
(1) Applicable Disc *1 DVD: DVD-ROM (DVD-5, DVD-9, DVD-10, DVD-18),
DVD-R (read)
CD : CD-DA, CD+(E)G, CD-MIDI, CD-TEXT, CD-ROM,
CD-ROM XA, CD-I, CD-I Bridge (Photo-CD, Video-CD)
Multisession CD (Phto-CD, CD-EXTRA, CD-R,
CD-RW), CD-R (read), CD-RW (read)
(2) Data Capacity
User Data/Block DVD-ROM: 2,048 Byte/Block
CD-ROM : 2,048 Byte/Block (Mode 1)
2,336 Byte/Block (Mode 2)
Data Cpacity/Disc: (1 GB=230 Byte, 1 MB=220 Byte, 1 KB=210 Byte)
DVD-5 : 4.377 GB (4.700 Billion Byte)
DVD-9 : 7.959 GB (8.545 Billion Byte)
DVD-10: 8.754 GB (9.400 Billion Byte)
DVD-18: 15.917 GB (17.091 Billion Byte)
CD (Mode-1): 656.5 MB (688.4 Million Byte)
CD (Mode-2): 748.8 MB (785.2 Million Byte)
(3) Rotational Speed
DVD : Approx. 2,900 rpm (2.1-5X)
CD : Approx. 6,900 rpm (13.8-32X)
CD-RW: Approx. 4,300 rpm (8.6-20X)
CD Audio, Video CD : Approx. 1,200-2,000 rpm (4-5.7X)
(4) Transfer Rate
( 1 KByte=210 Byte=1,024 Bytes, 1 Mbyte=220 Byte=1,048,576 Bytes)
Sustained Block Transfer Rate DVD: 1,399-3,380 Block/s
CD : 1,034-2,400 Block/s
Sustained Data Transfer Rate DVD: 2,797-6,760 KByte/s
CD : Mode 1 2,069-4,800 KByte/s
Mode 2 2,360-5,475 KByte/s
Burst ( SCSI Interface ) 20 MByte/s ( Sync )
5 MByte/s ( Async )
**** Additional Features ****
CD Multisession Dis Spec (Photo-CD, CD-EXTRA)compliant
CD-R and CD-RW Disc Spec. compliant (Read)
Multimedia PC-3 Spec compliant
Windows PC98 Spec compliant
RPC2 Compliant
CD-DA Transfer through SCSI Bus
Subcode P,Q,R-W Transfer through over SCSI
CD Text Support
Built-in Mode-1ECC and Mode-2EDC (DVD/CD-ROM)
Embedded CD-ROM XA type ECC

Thanks loads for your opinion here.



KCK -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/22/2002 6:24:27 AM)

On the Web, Toshiba has no clue about MultiRead... Their specs don't mention it even for the latest DVD-ROM drives, including mine. You could try to contact their regional representative, or headquarters.



bcool -> RE: CD-RW formated by InCD 3.x not accessible (11/22/2002 8:16:57 AM)

quote:
Originally posted by KCK

On the Web, Toshiba has no clue about MultiRead... Their specs don't mention it even for the latest DVD-ROM drives, including mine. You could try to contact their regional representative, or headquarters.


I may just do that - and settle this question once and for all.
Thanks!



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