Before you answer, read the below. This question is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

A good audio ripper IMHO, does the following:

SPEED
====
1. High speed burst read speed (for unscratched discs in burst mode)
2. High speed c2 mode read speed (for EAC secure mode)
3. High speed scratched disc mode (for discs that have scratches)
4. High speed Copy protected disc reading speed (for CDS/Key2Audio/etc discs). This includes the ability to bypass the dreaded 9-10 sec gap problem, which most sites do NOT test properly (I know, because I've tried some of the drives they've tested and they fail miserably at higher than 4 x CLV).

ACCURACY
=======
5. Very high statistical c2 accuracy (~100% ideal)
6. Consistent rip-to-rip accuracy (0% difference ideal)
7. Superior reading optics (small number of "damaged" or "unreadable" blocks with CD Speed surface test with a scratched disc)

ADDITIONAL FEATURES
===============
8. Superior error concealment with long scratches (no audible glitches even with longer scratches or "blacked out" test discs)
9. Low noise even with high speed ripping (measured in both dBA and sone)
10. Overread into lead-in and lead-out
11. Low CPU utilization at highest rip speeds

Now, I already know that CDR Info and CDR Lab together measure most of these, if you combine their reviews.

However, it's very hard to combine the information from all the reviews and find a combined rank for all the DAE rippers.

What's more discomforting is that the results from other sites (ixbt.com, cdr.cz) do not always agree with the results from CDR Info (and/or CDR Labs).

As such, it is very difficult to draw absolute "What is the best" drive for ripping audio conclusions.

However, my short list currently is (problems in parentheses):

- Sony DRU-700A (noisy as hell, no lead reading,
- Plextor PX-712 (noisy, low error correction accuracy)
- LG GSA-4120B (noisy,
- BTC DRW-1108IM (bad reading optics: easily reports damaged blocks)

This is ONLY for DAE ripping. I'm not concerned about their other failings or abilities within this thread (be those dvd burning, kprobe reading or what not).

My questions :

What is the best DAE ripper in your opinion, using the CRITERIA ABOVE and why?

Which comparative tests is this superiority based on (test references)?

Do you know of any drives that are even better, especially with scratched discs?

cheers,
Halcyon

Refs: cdr-info, cdrlabs, cdr.cz, ixbt.com and c't magazine dae accuracy tests.

[Deleted by Admins]

(in reply to Halc)

I use EAC exclusively for audio ripping as well!

(in reply to Deleted User)

Errr.. guys, I meant best *drive*.

:)


cheers,
Halcyon

PS Try Plextools Pro with "recover best bytes" with any modern Plextor drive against any drive of your choice and EAC in secure mode (c2 or no c2). Try this with a scratched disc and compare the results. You'll be pretty amazed...

(in reply to MP3Mogul)

[Deleted by Admins]

(in reply to Halc)

Halc, as usual, you have many questions, which none can give a definatly answer. Unfortunaly we haven't much occupied with the DAE/Error Correction quality latetly (meaning adding new tests/improve them)...

To be honest i cannot say that there is a single drive that is perfect, testing with Abex test discs showing a behaviour with known media, testing with CD-R/RW can give other results...The ripping software also plays big role...

(in reply to Deleted User)

Thanks for the replies.

I'm afraid the error correction is not all conclusive, although I agree that it is often a good indicator.

However, for finding the ideal DAE drive, it can be misleading.

Why?

There are drives that give high statistical c2 accuracy, but absolutely fall apart on longer scratches (LiteOns are a good example).

Then there are drives that don't do high c2 accuracy, but their optical reading capability is superior for even longer scratches (some Toshibas performs like this).

Then again there are drives that have high c2, low scratch reading capability, but absolutely superior error concealment (BTC often performs like this)

A good drive should do all of the above (high c2 accuracy, high rip-to-rip reliability, high scratch tolerance of the optics, very good higher order polynomial concealment + speed and silence).

I know it's a difficult question to answer in full or in absolute sense, not to mention being really laboursome to test for.

However, it'd be interesting to make a set of DEFINITE criteria for selecting the best DAE drive and then testing a round up of modern drives to find out which one really shines against that criteria.

Personally I use a combo of LiteOn + Plextor myself, but I'm trying to cut down on the drives I have :)

(in reply to emperor)

Go for a Samsung 616 drive...... it's a DVD ROM...... you won't find any better.

(in reply to Halc)

Thanks mp3mogul.

Can you tell me what are you basing your opinion on this Samsung drive (i.e. which tests and how did it perform)?

(in reply to MP3Mogul)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halc

PS Try Plextools Pro with "recover best bytes" with any modern Plextor drive against any drive of your choice and EAC in secure mode (c2 or no c2). Try this with a scratched disc and compare the results. You'll be pretty amazed...

Not always ... the success of Plextools Pro error recovery must be 1. validated by a second extraction (like EAC's T&C with C2) since C2 can fail on a Plextor drive as well and, additionally, must be 2. regarded individually from case to case. I do have encountered several situations where Plextools failed to successfully extract (and EAC didn't) and vice versa. So from my point of view, both Plextools and EAC should be given a try when difficult extractions occur.

As for the PX712A, I am (as an owner) not completely satisfied with its error correction abilities when I do compare it to my Plex Premium on the same disc - the Premium always gets further into the damaged sections before reporting errors and is able to do a better job at correction.

BTW - IIRC, the PX-708A scored the best result in CDR-Info's review ever, regarding DAE error correction abilities.

So, my favourite drive for ripping/writing images is the Plex Premium, alongside with my beloved PX-40TSi (only if damage to the source CD isn't too severe (due to it's optics not being that good) since both drives do overread I/O. The Premium is silent, too.

The LiteOn LTR52246S (in addition to both drives mentioned above) is a good choice for single-track-ripping ... it starts at 9-10x, with good C2 accuracy and high tolerance towards bad discs - but the ball-bearing produces a whining noise during each spinup.

(in reply to Halc)

JeanLuc you are correct, the PX-712A reports much easier C2 errors when measuring discs, we have noticed and pointed out this...

(in reply to JeanLuc)

Thanks JeanLuc.

I've noticed the same (ref: Plextools Pro vs EAC). I was just commenting the ripping software monotony (i.e. "eac is the best"), which I often run into.

I also have Premium, 52327s (two of them), but I sold my PX-708a.

Whereas they are quite quiet, I don't think their maximum error correction burst or concealment methods are in the best of class (ref: BTC drives).

Also, some discs seem really to have superior optics/servo and their ability to keep on reading on even severly scratched discs without errors is remarkable (some Toshibas are like this).

In short, I'd like to have a drive that produces even better performance than my Plex/Lites do, when the discs are severely scratched (deep/long scratches). Discs like these are common at the local library music section.

So, if you have any more comments, suggestions or tests, please chime in.

cheers,
halcyon

(in reply to emperor)

Halcyon such tests are rather hard to assemple a test procedure for this, i suspect we could compare the Toshiba drives with Abex discs quite soon...

(in reply to Halcyon)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halcyon

In short, I'd like to have a drive that produces even better performance than my Plex/Lites do, when the discs are severely scratched (deep/long scratches). Discs like these are common at the local library music section.

Hehe .. I know what you mean ... my public library has some 2000+ interesting music CD's with deep and long scratches. Fortunately, they seal the upper side of the disc with a solid transparent label so no scratches can get into the reflective layer at least.

Do you remember "BobHere" from the EAC forum ? He loved the LiteOn DVD-ROM drives (especially the 163) for their good read capabilities and good C2 accuracy (although incapable of overreading, later models showed a low read offset of -6 samples IIRC) ... he also stated that the 163 featured better interpolation techniques (the 163 is a BTC drive, as well as the Sony DDU-1621 IIRC - the Sony still does a good DAE job in my Dad's PC BTW) than the LiteOn CDRW drives.

And he always kept whining about the loss of his old Ricoh 6x CDRW - the "best damn ripper he ever had, hands down" ... :D

(in reply to Halcyon)

Yeah, I remember BobHere. I had Sony DDU-1621 myself and still have LTD-163 around. I think they both have their cons (BTC has superior error concealment), but scratched situation reading is not always good.

Maybe I'm chasing a ghost here and such a drive does not exists.

I'm pretty happy with the Lite/Plex combo I have now, but I'm always on the look out for better (esp. faster/more accurate) performing DAE ripper :)

(in reply to JeanLuc)

quote:

ORIGINAL: emperor

Halcyon such tests are rather hard to assemple a test procedure for this, i suspect we could compare the Toshiba drives with Abex discs quite soon...

is there any preliminary info on the toshibas, btc, or other drives. This is a common problem (wanting the music off of cds that have been abused by children - childabuse?) Which btc is preferred? I also thought i saw somewhere that the LG has good ability in this regard, no?

(in reply to emperor)