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Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/1/2003 4:00:57 PM   
Life_Bringer

 

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From: Italy
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First of all sorry i'm 4 my bad english. Anyway
I tested some kind of cd-r with cd doctor
Magnex XCRD80 16X
Magnex XCRBL80 40x
Homo 80min ?X
Verbatim Datalife 40X
Verbatim Datalife plus 32X
Benq 32X
Mmore 24X 80 min and 74 min
Techno plus ?X
Waitec 40X
BIT&BIT 32X
The Mmore cd-r have different cd manufaturer type, plasmon, moser baer india and 3m.
If somebody is interest i post here the results.
Post #: 1
RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/1/2003 6:34:49 PM   
john

 

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Yes post them


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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/1/2003 7:31:13 PM   
Life_Bringer

 

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From: Italy
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Ok the image that i used 4 this test is 648Mb, for info about cd-r I used alcohol and where they give me bad info i used smartburn software.

Waitec 40X 80 min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 27 18
Media Manufacturer: Plasmon Data system Ltd.
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 25 Avg: 7.554
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Mmore 24X 80min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 28 26
Media Manufacturer: Multi Media Masters and Machinary SA
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 23 Avg: 4.519
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Mmore 24X 74min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 28 26
Media Manufacturer: Multi Media Masters and Machinary SA
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 19 Avg: 3.431
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Techno Plus 24X 80min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 27 19
Media Manufacturer: Plasmon Data system Ltd.
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 19 Avg: 2.654
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Mmore 24X 74min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 27 19
Media Manufacturer: Plasmon Data system Ltd.
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 18 Avg: 2.507
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Bit&Bit 32X 80min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 24 26
Media Manufacturer: Computer support italy s.r.l.
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 13 Avg: 2.448
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 99,89% good, 0,11% damaged

Mmore 24X 80min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 17 06
Media Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Limited
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 06H
C1 min: 0 max: 16 Avg: 2.403
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Mmore 24X 80min writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 28 26
Media Manufacturer: Multi Media Masters and Machinary SA
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 06H
C1 min: 0 max: 13 Avg: 1.759
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Magnex XCRBL80 40X writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 15 17
Media Manufacturer: Ritek Co.
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 04H
C1 min: 0 max: 10 Avg: 1.736
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 98,30% good, 1,70% damaged

Benq 32X writed at 32X
Atip Code: 97 22 67
Media Manufacturer: Acer Media Technology Inc
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 14 Avg: 1.632
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Verbatim Datalife plus 32X writed at 24X
Atip Code: 97 34 22
Media Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
Recording layer: AZO
Indicative target write power: 04H
C1 min: 0 max: 11 Avg: 0.833
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Magnex XCRD80 16X writed at 16X
Atip Code: 97 16 07
Media Manufacturer: CURSOR,Diamond (old)
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 04H
C1 min: 0 max: 15 Avg: 0.749
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good

Homo 80min writed at 24X
Atip Code: 97 27 00
Media Manufacturer: Cyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 14 Avg: 0.657
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 99,89% good, 0,11 damaged

Verbatim Datalife 40X writed at 40X
Atip Code: 97 34 22
Media Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Limited
Recording layer: Phthalocyanine
Indicative target write power: 05H
C1 min: 0 max: 9 Avg: 0.660
No c2 errors
Nero scandisk: 100% good


Anyway i have some comments:
I can't believe at this good results of Verbatim made by moser baer india, i think this manufacter isn't very good at all, this datalife cr-d obtain a better result then a datalifeplus, that's very strange.The mmore manufacted by plasmon in my old cd recorder (lg 16x) obteined a very good results like a 0,8% of c1 error. Maybe at my lite on don't like these cd. Any comment is appreciate. I have also images of disk doctor tests.

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Post #: 3
RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/2/2003 3:42:56 AM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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I may recognize this disc:
Magnex XCRD80 16X

It did not have even REMOTELY as good results though, it was completely unreadable.

Perhaps it would clear things up if you would post the ATIP lead in as well as the ATIP lead out, if you don't mind. It gives a much better idea of if the disc is the same.

What drive were these burned with? and what drive did you do the testing with??

Thanks for all the info! I would love a copy of the CD Doctor scan results!


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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/2/2003 12:18:23 PM   
Life_Bringer

 

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From: Italy
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Hi Dolphinius_Rex i burned 3 or 4 Magnex 16X and all obtained a very good results (with a cd 530mb they have an c1 errors of 0,2%), i think these cd are good with my Lite on 52X drive. This lite on is very strange, how can be better a datalife instead a datalife plus? The homo cd what i burned with my lg have much c1 and c2 errors. Anyway if u want i have a screen of info captured by alcohol (with atip lead in and out, but some screen are modified cuz alcohol give me wrong information), cd doktor test results and a scandisk of nero, if you want u can contact me by icq so i can give u more info

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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/3/2003 7:04:04 PM   
rjw

 

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From: Netherlands
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1st some Lite On's don't like some Mitsubishi Chemicals disc's.

2nd According to MCC AZO is a better (longer lasting dye) as
pthalocyanine.(Mitsubishi has also a licensce for Pthalocyanine but they think AZO is better when it comes to aging.So they decided to use AZO for there so called quality disc's.)
3rd The quality controle is lower on Datalife disc's as for Datalife Plus disc's.

By the way don't underestimate Moser Baer(MBIL) while most branded media is not really high quality. I have had very good results with Emtec Ceram Guards made by Moser Baer.

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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/3/2003 8:54:38 PM   
Life_Bringer

 

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From: Italy
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I don't know why but i don't like MBIL cd maybe cuz they required an high target write power and cuz they must be writed at high speed (40X) if not they have much c1 and c2 errors.
So at my lite on don't like the AZO dye, i'm right?
Anyway what can I do with these Verbatime datalife plus? I must burn these cd with my old lg 16X? Or u know if lite on will release another firmware for obtain better results with AZO dye?

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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/3/2003 10:29:53 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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well, I wouldn't call the results you recieved from the Verbatim Datalife Plus BAD. They were quite good, it just happens that another disc scored better


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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/3/2003 10:40:58 PM   
Life_Bringer

 

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From: Italy
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The result is bad 4 the quality of CD , i think. Anyway what is the margin of avg of c1 and c2 errors to say if the cd are good or not?

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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/3/2003 11:42:49 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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for me, I consider a CD good quality if it has a C1 maximum of no more then 35 (usually 25-30), and an average of less then 3.5%

I will use a CD-R that has a C1 peak of <50 and average of <5%

but that's just me


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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/4/2003 12:01:21 AM   
Life_Bringer

 

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From: Italy
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So i'm more demanding than u
I consider a cd good quality if they have an avg result <2,5%.
Anyway had u never try wses? I tried it but it not work

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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/4/2003 1:19:20 AM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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I haven't tried WSES yet, though I do plan to, but haven't gotten around to putting a system together for it yet


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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/4/2003 6:14:14 PM   
Life_Bringer

 

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Dolphinius_Rex: do u know if lite on will release another firmware for a better compatibility with verbatim datalife plus?

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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/4/2003 9:47:07 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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hard to say, I don't have any direct contacts with LiteON (at least at this time) so I don't have any inside info really. I know they've already dramatically improved their compatability with the media since their older drives (ie. 12x/24x drives), but I don't know how much *more* tweaking they plan to do. Honestly, the scores weren't that bad though


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RE: Some c1 and c2 errors tests - 3/8/2003 1:55:37 PM   
rjw

 

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I have some old Metal AZO 16x rated Metal AZO verbatims and they work really good with my Lite ON 48246S. Infact they work better as most of my TY disc's however some brands of TY media score still a little bit better.
Here are the scores of some Verbatim Data Life Plus Metal Azo 16x (made in Taiwan) burnt at 16x
Keep in mind that most of these disc's didn't use there full capacity. (most times 75% of the capacity was used ).Since they were for used for normal situations (not testing purposes. but after these results I have put 1 box asside for testing purposes)

Max 5 Ave:0.102 (low speed)
Max 5 Ave:0.169 (high speed)

Max 5 Ave:0.103 (low speed)
Max 5 Ave:0.167 (low speed)

Max 7 AVE:0.109 (low speed)
Max 5 AVE:0.171 (high speed)

Max 8 AVE:0.107 (low speed)
Max 10 AVE:0.211 (high speed)

Max 6 AVE:0.078 (low speed)
Max 6 AVE:0.121 (high speed)

Max 7: AVE:0.087 (low speed)
Max 7: AVE:0.132 (high speed)
(full capacity was used for this one)


To come back on one thing Mitsubishi Chemicals has got licensces for 3 cd-r dye's.Cyanine, Pthalocyanine, Metal AZO(claimed is even that they have a licensce for Formazan (Kodak) however I can't confirm this one just like I can't confirm that Kodak has the licensce for a Metal Azo dye.)

Now Mitsubishi Chemicals cleary thinks that Metal AZO is the best dye for archiving. That's why the named these DATALIFE PLUS for ther Verbatim brand. The other disc's (cyanine,pthalocyanine) most times made by a third party (MBIL,CMC,TY(PASTEL disc's are TY) are called Datalife.


Now AZO is supperior to any cyanine (including metalized cyanine) and allmost all pthalocyanine dye's when it comes to UV-resistance and humidity.

Remember Mitsubishi invented AZO orriginally as an answer for cheap long lasting reliable disc's. Since gold was expensive. So they wanted a disc which comes close to the aging qualities of pthalocyanine/cyanine/formazan + gold but with a normal metal(silver) reflection layer so they had to come up with a new dye

However some compannies have optimised pthalocyanine and have introduced filter layers and some additional materials(gold/coatings)in such a way that they can outclass the AZO dye and can claime even better performances.

So what the point is is that AZO has at this moment a higher error ratio however don't expect a big rise in errors arround the years.

The same counts for Kodak/MPO gold why there burn quality is just okay most times and most other disc's can do better. They simply have the advantage that the increase in errors in time is really small compared to any other disc's. So in the end there better as the competition.



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