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Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/6/2002 8:37:39 PM   
donziehm

 

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I am running Win 98. Liteon 48125W ver. 4.0 firmware

After I format and eject with InCD and then reinsert CDRW, I get this IE message saying that my machine can't read Mt. Rainer formated CDs and I need EasyWriter Reader. Installed that Reader and still didn't help.

I originally had ver 3.27 of InCD installed and it seemed to work occassioally. Uninstalled that version with Clean utility Cendyne gave me and installed ver. 3.51. This was hanging my machine so uninstalled that ver. and installed ver. 3.37

Any ideas what's causing this.
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/7/2002 4:54:10 PM   
donziehm

 

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I did some further testing and found the following.

I did a full erase on the CD mentioned in my prior post using Nero and they burned a large file to it using Nero burn. Disk had tons of verification errors so I pitched that CD.

What I am finding out is if you take a factory CD and format it with InCD, for the most part the CD works OK using InCD. However, if you erase it, use it in Nero burn, then try to reformat with InCD, you end up with problems. This happens even if you do a full erase with Nero. I did notice that when I loaded one of these CDs, InCD volume header data is still present although the disk shows as blank.

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/8/2002 2:09:48 AM   
donziehm

 

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Well, looks like my problem is related to the Memorex CDRW 12x
media I was using. I formated a FUJI 4x CDRW with no problems and InCD recognizes it fine. Unfortunately I bought 5 Memorex CDRW when I bought the Liteon without realizing the general concensus is that Memorex is junk.

So if anyone else starts getting that weird IE message that the InCD CDRW can't be read after formating it as CD-MRW because your machine doesn't support Mt. Rainer; suspect your medium first!

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/8/2002 3:05:28 AM   
KCK

 

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Apparently you have solved your problem! Yet for other users, maybe you could clarify a couple of points.

Did you format to CD-MRW (Mt. Rainier)?

Does your "reinsert CDRW" mean reinserting the disc in your burner? If yes, then you should have seen the InCD mounted message instead of IE. However, if you inserted the disc in another CD/DVD-ROM on the same box, then the IE message was correct; under Win98 one needs EasyWriteReader to read InCD discs (both standard UDF 1.50 and CD-MRW) in other drives. In general it's better to install the latest EasyWriteReader from www.ahead.de, because the one put on the disc by InCD frequently doesn't work correctly.

You were wise to do full erase by Nero, because quick erasures or InCD reformatting are less reliable, especially with media of low quality. I'm not sure if Nero's full erase should remove the volume label as well; maybe not.

Your final conclusion is correct: Too many users blame InCD for everything without checking their media first!

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/8/2002 8:06:01 PM   
donziehm

 

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To clarify, the IE message that the PC does not support Mt. Rainer was produced on the same machine where InCD 3.51 is installed and where the CDRW was previously formated.

Like I said prevously I think this is mostly a media problem but I am still highly suspicious of InCD problems using media that was initially formated by InCD, reformatted and/or erased using other CDRW software, and then reformatted by InCD. I think I will download Superblank, erase the Memorex CDRW, and attempt the InCD reformat and read senerio again and see what happens.

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/8/2002 10:11:23 PM   
KCK

 

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You didn't really answer my questions, so here we go again.

1. Were you experimenting with discs formatted to CD-MRW (Mt. Rainier)? See the option "Format disc to CD-MRW" on the InCD Page Settings (right-click the InCD icon, and select InCD Page Settings). I asked because your symptoms could depend on whether CD-MRW was used.

2. Did you get the IE message when you reinserted the disc in your burner? I presumed you had only one burner on your machine. However, you could also have a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM reader on the same machine; if you did insert the disc into a CD-ROM drive, the IE message would be normal.

If you intend to do further testing, note that your burner will write to older media at most at 4x, and you can't control at which speed InCD writes to High Speed media (4x-10x or 4x-12x). I would try to get at least several HS discs from other vendors.

Further, your results will depend on whether you use CD-MRW.

BTW, did you run CD Speed Scandisc on your troublesome discs?

I also had some problems with discs formatted by earlier versions of InCD, but Nero's Full Erase worked well. Still, it will be interesting to hear about your experiences with Superblank. On the other hand, if your burner dislikes certain discs, whether you blank them or not before reformatting needn't matter at all. BTW, I have firmware VS08, whereas yours is apparently VS04, so our results might vary even on the same discs.

(in reply to donziehm)
Post #: 6
RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/9/2002 5:41:21 PM   
donziehm

 

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Sorry, I try again to answer your questions.

Yes, the Memorex 12X CD-RWs where initially formated using InCD with CD-MRW checked.

I have only one CDRW installed on my machine; a Liteon 48125W.

The IE message appeared on this same machine after I reinserted the above Memorex CD-RWs in my Liteon after formatting with InCD.

I did run Nero's scandisk and file verification utilities on these CD-RWs and everything checked out fine. I can copy files to these CD-RWs just fine using Nero's burning ROM software.

I have subsequently updated my firmware on the Liteon to VS08. I also ran Superblank on these CD-RWs.

My latest test with these CD-RWs and InCD resulted in InCD just hanging up; doesn't even start the formating process. Again these same CD-RWs are processed by Nero's burning Rom just fine.

Did some additional file copies with the Fuji 4X CD-RW I previously formatted with InCD and everything worked fine.

My conclusion at this point is that Memorex 12X CD-RWs and InCD are not compatiable with my PC configuration for some unknown reason. I do know CenDyne strongly recommends not using Memorex media period.

I also have noticed that InCD ver 3.51 does cause some problems with my PC when it is active. I have seen a slowdown on keyboard entry speed and it has on more than one ocassion caused my Compaq Internet keyboard program to hangup. This has occurred when I am logged on to AOL.

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/10/2002 6:04:57 AM   
KCK

 

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Thanks for answering my questions.

As for your intial CD-MRW Memorex experiments, I guess if a disc is not closed properly upon ejection due to medium errors, then on reinsertion InCD can't recognize it, passes on the control to Explorer, and hence you get the IE message. This is why I asked about Scandisc's results on troublesome InCD discs.

Maybe Nero works with these discs because Nero's correction for writing errors differs from Mt. Rainier.

Do you mean that InCD now hangs on discs erased by both Nero and Superblank?

Just for curiosity, could you repeat your tests for non-CD-MRW? Although Mt. Rainier should have better error correction, error handling is at the hardware level (your burner), so things could be different for standard UDF 1.50.

As for Memorex CD-RWs, you may search www.cdrlabs.com for users'
experiences.

Finally, concerning InCD slowdowns, did you read

http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7636

(in reply to donziehm)
Post #: 8
RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/10/2002 6:17:09 PM   
donziehm

 

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Yes, a while back I tried to just do a CD-RW(not CD-MRW) format with InCD and received the error code 0000-0000-0000-0000 at the end of the process.

Tried again this morning with these Memorex 12X CD-RWs and received same error message.

Tried one last time to use InCD to format them to CD-MRW after doing Nero full erase on them. Received error message 0035-0003-000c-0000. No idea what this is since I can't find any ref to it on Ahead's web site.

I have also seen other web site postings about people having problems with high speed CD-RWs and InCD. Almost everyone can use InCD with 4X CD-RWs with no problems it seems.

One final point I noticed with these CD-RWs. When I checked their speed with Nero's info tool; it showed them as 10X. Since InCD does it's own speed settings, I wonder if this discrepency has something to do with the problem.

(in reply to donziehm)
Post #: 9
RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/10/2002 7:02:33 PM   
KCK

 

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The InCD error codes are supposed to help Ahead's tech support (except that few users get any feedback from them).

It is not unusual for Nero to report 10x for 12x discs.

The lack of InCD speed control becomes even more serious for Ultra High Speed media, so let's hope Ahead addresses this issue soon.

Finally, did the thread on InCD slowdowns work for you?

(in reply to donziehm)
Post #: 10
RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/11/2002 12:24:24 AM   
donziehm

 

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Yes, looked at the referenced thread. For my purposes, I just start InCD when I need it and shut it down when I am not using it anymore. I have had problems even accessing Nero's infotools, when InCD is active. My machine doesn't have a lot of horsepower; only 433 Celeron.

Back to InCd and high speed CD-RW media. I have become like a "mad dog in the meathouse" on this issue!

Went out and bought some Maxwell 10X CD-RWs. I use Maxwell Cd-Rs for everything else with zero problems. I copy audio CDs at 40X and they work perfect in my car and home CD player.

Tried to use InCD to format these Maxwell 10X CD-RWs. Senerio similiar to the Merorex's. This format showed all format options grayed out with the skip option checked. Looked like format completed OK but no InCD message that it's OK to use them, the InCD box is still red, and no eject option. Properties showed they had no available space with 503 meg used; these are 650 meg CD's.

Now the fun start's. I tried to reformat them again with InCD. This time full/brief format options available so I do full format. Everything goes fine. InCD message appears that disk sucessfully formated and the icon turns green. Eject option appears and I subsequently eject disk after it writes trailer data. I go in Win Explorer copy some files and all it fine.

Now for the grand finally! Reinsert disk and InCD doesn't recognize it. Tried a couple times - nothing!

My conclusions.

Either the Liteon firmware has a problem with writing high speed CD-RW media in CD-MRW format or InCD does.

Again my 4X Fuji disk works just fine with InCD.

I am going to contact Cendyne and let them know about this maybe they can have both Liteon and Ahead research this.

Anyone else having InCD and high speed media problems?

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/11/2002 2:27:17 AM   
donziehm

 

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OK. Now, I'm definitely ready for the bit bucket!

Let that Maxwell CD-RW cool down real good and tried it again. Low and behold, it works fine! InCD recognizes it, I can copy files via Win Explorer, etc.

So it looks more and more that the Liteon is the culprit. I did run a file check and surface scan on this CD-RW and noticed that there were 3 bad sectors at the beginning of disk. I don't know if this had any bearing on InCd's freakish behavior in the format phase.

The only thing I wonder about now if it's something to do with my ASPI layer. I have 4.60 installed. I have been staying away from 4.71 since all I read about it was bad stuff. I don't think this is the culprit though since I am just running Win 98.

(in reply to donziehm)
Post #: 12
RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/11/2002 9:01:54 AM   
KCK

 

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One of my 98SE boxes has PII/366MHz, 256MB, and InCD is not slowing it down noticably. To access Nero InfoTool, you may need to eject the disc, call up InfoTool, and then reinsert the disc.

Which InCD version are you running now? You mentioned reverting to 3.37 initially, but then keyboard problems with 3.51.61. I guess it's 3.37, since apparently you saw the final format message which no longer appears in 3.51.61. BTW, 3.37 has the infamous rename bug (just search various forums), so I would advise upgrading to 3.51.61, or going back to 3.31 (both uninstall via Add/Remove Programs cleanly, so there is no danger in switching, but first uninstall the current version before installing another). Note, however, that sometimes 3.51.61 doesn't like discs formatted with earlier versions (especially CD-MRW!), so the discs need to be fully erased via Nero before formatting them again.

If you switched to 3.51.61 and described the formatting of a fresh disc in detail (options, screen output, etc), I could tell you how much it differs from what I see on my 98SE box.

I presume that you eject InCD discs via the InCD icon (I wouldn't try ejecting by pressing your burner's button, although it works sometimes). Do you have Autoinsert Notification on for your burner? This is reported as Autorun on in Nero InfoTool. Some users need to have Autorun off under 98SE to get InCD working, so try to experiment with this setting. What are the other settings for your burner in Device Manager (DMA, etc)?

Before jumping to conclusions, note that my burner has the same firmware, and I'm using cheap media (D-VISION 80min/700MB 10x, Platinum 80min/700MB 4x-12x), InCD 3.51.61 on 98SE with original ASPI, having no problems with CD-MRW.

ASPI 4.60 should work on your Win98 box, and yes, you should stay away from 4.7x.

Since you mentioned heat-related symptoms, are you sure your burner is running cool in your box?

In general, reading results degrade with rising temperatures of readers and media (that's why users report different Scandisc results for consecutive runs).

You may have mismatch between your burner and media (some burners dislike particular media which perform well with other burners). Neither Maxwell nor Memorex are famous for their CD-RW quality (which has nothing to do with their CD-Rs). Many vendors rebadge discs from several manufacturers, and their quality varies a lot. You could check the ATIP-s of your discs with Nero, CD Speed, InfoTool, and Lite-On's Smartburn. I don't know which discs you can buy, but I'd look for better brands, like Verbatim, etc. Does Cendyne recommend any CD-RW media for your burner?

Having 3 bad sectors at the beginning of your disc might have confused InCD, because CD-MRW stores essential information there. Note that you can't blame InCD for these bad sectors, since for CD-MRW, remapping of bad sectors is controlled by your burner's firmware.

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/11/2002 6:22:32 PM   
donziehm

 

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I am running InCD ver. 3.51.

Looks like your assessment of bad sectors at beginning of disk affecting InCD format processing was right on the money. I formatted other Maxwell CD-RW and it was processed just fine by InCd. Also this disk has no errors on it after verification by scandisk. I am reluctant to use the disk with sector errors although InCd seems to recognize it OK now.

I also turned off auto notification for the Liteon. It alone seems to have corrected a lot of InCD and PC performance problems.

The Maxwell CD-RWs are Mitsibushi's made in Austria. As such I think they should be reliable. I will be verifying the other 2 in my 5 pack for errors. This effort to me is a pain in the butt.

I hope Ahead incorporates some error detection logic in their next reelase of InCD to reject the disk immediately if it finds sector errors it's root segment area.

Bottom line is all this worth the effort? These Maxwell's cost me $3 a piece. The Merorex's are worthless to InCD. It seems to me that high speed CD-RW media has to mature a bit before it can be considered reliable for any use in packet writing and Mt. Ranier applications.

(in reply to donziehm)
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RE: Can't Read CDRW After Formating with InCD - 12/11/2002 11:14:46 PM   
KCK

 

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Glad to hear about your progress! Hopefully Lite-On will give us yet another firmware which will accept poorer media. (BTW, their latest 52x burner won't work with the supplied 24x disc until flashed to the latest firmware!)

I would look for cheaper media. The ones I'm using cost me less than $1 per piece.

(in reply to donziehm)
Post #: 15
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