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okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 10:41:40 AM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
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Hi.

I've been checking this forum for clues but all I get is bombardment of technical information that goes over my head!

So, keep this simple:

I use LiteOn 24x CDR.
I've been using Imation and Datalife all this time.

It would be great if ya'll could just summarize your knowledge about CDR medias and tell me which are "the best" "the good" and "the ugly".

Oh, btw, Whats Taiyo Yoden (or something)? is it a good company?
Post #: 1
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 11:10:05 AM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
Ok, I downloaded CD Speed and got some info regarding some of the CDR media I have used/using. I would appreciate it if you could tell me which of them are the best or not good.

TYPE #1 (Imation)
Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics
Code : 97m26s66f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 6: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.71
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

TYPE #2 (Datalife)
Manufacturer : Multi Media Masters && Machinary
Code : 97m28s22f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 2: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.74
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

TYPE #3 (it says "Datalife" on disc, but looks different from the other "Datalife")
Manufacturer : unknown
Code : 97m25s40f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 0: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.74
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested
PS: I am concerned why does it say "unkown" manufacturer :(

TYPE #4 (says "EURA-MAX" on the disc)
Manufacturer : Multi Media Masters && Machinary
Code : 97m28s22f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 2: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.67
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

TYPE #5 (says "CREATIV" on the disc)
Manufacturer : Ritek
Code : 97m15s17f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 7: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.73
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

TYPE #6
Manufacturer : Acer
Code : 97m22s65f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 5: Short Strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 74:59.74
659 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

Ok, out of all these types, Type #1 I use most commonly and plan on using in the future. I would really accept your recommendations!

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 2
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 11:29:13 AM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
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Ok, I am scared now. I've been doing some more research and realised that CMC Magnetics doesnt have a very good reputation. But, the thing is, I've been using Imation (CMC Magnetics) since more than a year now and I've only had like 3 coasters! so.. isnt that good?

But, the my real concern is..... Life!
I have a huge movie collection and I want these CDs to operate 50 years from now too! Will CMC be able to do that? what do you suggest!?!

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 3
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 11:34:29 AM   
GizmoChubs

 

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Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
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Ok, one more thing. Could someone also give me some advice on the TYPE #2 discs I listed above, the ones manufactured by "Multi Media Masters && Machinary" because a very large percentage of my movies are on those discs too!

sorry guys for so many questions, really appreciate the effort!

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 4
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 12:26:12 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
Ok, I did some testing using CDSpeed on some of my discs.

I copied a few discs(imation) just a couple hours ago and I tested them using CDspeed's quality check and they already have thousands of errors! I am really worried.The thing that confuses me is that the CD works fine from start to end, so, what kinda errors are these? Can I fix them ? If I copy CD to CD will these erros also be copied? Who is responsible for these erros, the CDR media or the CD writer 9during the burning process)?! Over a period is there a tendency for these erros to "spread", if yes, what can I do to prevent it?

PLEASE HALP!

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 5
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 1:15:19 PM   
rjw

 

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Joined: 8/18/2001
From: Netherlands
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Well my experience is if NERO CD SPEED gives errors then your disc's are really bad.
I wouldn't trust any of the factories you have listed except maybe for the Riteks and the Acer discs.
1st question are these 700 mb Acer disc's burned up to 700 mb. Then the answer is now. 650 mb on 700 mb or 650 mb Acer disc's seem to be no problem but I have many problems when burning beyond 78 minutes of audio with Acer 700 mb media. (And no it is not one drive in fact I tested them with 10 different types of drives with the same results)
2nd The Riteks could be great or bad the fact is with Ritek you allmost never know. I know that Memorex black Riteks work good but that the Philips ones are very poor. So I don't know how good these are.
Taiyo Yuden is one of the best cd-r manufacturers. Some others are Mitsubishi Chemicals, Mitsui, Kodak (but they stopped makeing disc's), AOD(These guys use the ATIP code of Plasmon but the fact is that they only sell there own made disc's.)

Errors are made with every burner when a disc is recorded.
The fact is is the error rate low enough.
Large errors could be because of the media or the burner. Some burners burn poor quality (ACER 48x) or burn bad on some type of disc's.(Lite On 32x/40x with Mitsubishi Chemicals)
In you case the bigest change is that the errors are there because of the bad media.
Now copying the disc's might help you solve some problems. Since errors that can still be corrected will be corrected however errors that can't be corrected will not be corrected. Now if your lucky you won't notice these errors. You could be that lucky that the errors are only in information that isn't needed. But the fact is that disc's with a little errors will be soon getting more problematic errors which will results in problems.
Errors can be increased by scratches or UV light.


If you want to be sure to use these disc's over 50 years. Then your best option would be a pthalocyanine disc from Mitsui. Mitsui claims that there GOLD disc's can handle aging tests that come over with 200 years so 50 years will not be a problem. The silver disc's have claims for 100 years.




(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 6
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 1:27:54 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
Thank you for your reply!

I've been doing extended tests. and you were right, the Ritek disks didnt have a SINGLE error!
On the other hand, ALL MY DISKS HAVE THOUSANDS OF ERRORS!


Ok, so, now what do you suggest man? I have over 1000 CDs all copied over these crappy media. Only like 3 CDs have been copied on Ritek :(

The thing is, all my CDs are filled with movies and games.. and its more of a collection. I mean, they just sit in my cupboard, you think that over a period of time they will deteriote?

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 7
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 1:29:54 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
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Oh, and about Taiyo yoden.. TY is obviously the manufacturer, but, under what brand do they sell? Sony? GQ? Benq?

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 8
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 2:08:17 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
I was doing some further testing with my cousin. He copied a few CDs using Datalife media and he didnt get any erros. The Ritek CDs I mentioned ealier were also burned by him.

So, what I am beginning to think is that these errors are being caused by my burner. I use LiteOn 24x and he uses Plextor 16x.
Is there any option in Nero which can prevent or atleast reduce these errors? also, you think upgrading the firmware of my writer will reduce these errors?

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 9
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 3:48:14 PM   
rjw

 

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Joined: 8/18/2001
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Plextor 16x is a really good burner when it comes to writing quality in fact if disc's have problems with most burners then there still is big change that this drive can write them correct. A couple of years ago we had vanguard cd-r's with the ATIP of DST which where really problematic since the ATIP code didn't match the dye. So most writers use the ATIP code to choose the writing strategy for the dye. In this case this would result in a very bad burn. Now Plextor and Teac didn't had problems with these disc's since these compannies had drives that did some checking when writing the leadin. If there were problems they would try to do change the strategy. Now the good point of Plextor is that they still support there drives no matter how old a drive if there really is a big problem with today disc's and there old models then they will release a firmware to cause this problems if the problem is with the drive.

Best thing to do it try to burn a few TY disc's. If there are errors on all of them then I think the problem is the burner since TY and Lite On are a very good combination.

Taiyo Yuden can be recognized by the saying made in Japan most times.
While there are other Japanese manufacturers. Most of these disc's are not whide spread outside Japan. Ans sometimes it is logical

Mitsubishi/Verbatim Japan Are offcourse made by Mitsubishi Chemicals.(good disc's but not so good incombination with a Lite On burner)
Kodak Japan is made by Kodak (which is also a very good disc)
Mitsui Japan is made by Mitsui (which is also a very good disc)
In other words no really bad Japanese manufacturer is known.

Taiyo Yuden(TY) are sold these days (24x-40x range that is by)
Memorex 40x - TY
Fuji 16x/24x/32x - TY
Fuji 40x could be Fuji Germany or TY
Plextor - TY
Parrot 24x -TY
That's - The own factory brand of TY(NOT That's Write)
Taibotech -TY

TY disc's have a frosted hub. (Inner ring of cd which is most time totally transparant by other manufacturers.)

About the brands you post
Sony has used TY in the past but these are only up to 24x. I wouldn't take the risk if I was you unless the box says made in Japan or you can judge the real factory by just looking at the box. I can do this but I cannot recommend this to do if you haven't got any experience. 32x/40x are made by Sony/Lead data

Benq - Acer or now called Daxon.

GQ - ????

If you want to be shure that you can use these movies/games in the future. Then the best option will be to copy them if possible from the orriginal source in other cases it might help to copy them from the copy but like explained before there isn't a guarantee that the disc will work correct if you copy from the damaged disc's.
In the other case the disc's will be really/partially unreadable in a couple of years.

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 10
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 3:59:46 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline

I am not sure whether TY is available here and even if they are I think they will be pretty expensive.

Ok, but what about the Ritek CDs (the ones with Dye Type 7.. phenocytanine something)? My cousin and I did tests on these CDs and they didnt report any errors, I am just looking forward to try these disks on my writer. My question is: How good a combination is LiteOn 2410B and these Ritek(dye type 7) disks?

thanks



(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 11
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 4:05:39 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
btw, my friends just recommeneded Princo and Samsung, what do you say?

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Post #: 12
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 6:29:15 PM   
rjw

 

Posts: 932
Joined: 8/18/2001
From: Netherlands
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Samsung = made by Ritek.
But I do not know if these belong to the better or the not so good ritek disc's.

Princo cd-r's depend on your burner. Some like them and some not Now I don't know how they behave in a Lite On 24102B burner.

If your looking for cheap disc's with some quality then try getting disc's made by Prodisc. They seem to be nice for there price.

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 13
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 9:26:44 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
rjw, I think that all new Samsungs are now made by Prodisc and not Ritek.

Have a look at this thread: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49722&highlight=Samsung+Premium+32x

And the Samsung disc I am talking about can be found here:
http://www.samsungmedia.com/total_frame.asp?index=products&html=cdr

forth row from the top, the one on the left (Samsung 32x Premium)

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 14
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 10:06:33 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


Posts: 3310
Joined: 9/14/2002
From: Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Status: offline
Use CD Doctor for checking your CDs, don't use Nero CD Speed. CD Doctor apears to be much more accurate for reporting errors, also it tells you C1 and C2 errors, instead of just C2. Just follow the info lised below (originally posted by John)

- Name: CD Doctor (Homepage)
- Download link #1
http://www.ucatv.ne.jp/~miyuri.sky/cdd/doctor_104.zip
(password to extract "grStencilFuncExt" - without the quotes)
or link #2
http://s501xx.s13.xrea.com:8080/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1413
or link #3
ftp://62.67.47.73/doctor_104.exe
- Propose: Can report C1/C2 errors with a variety of drives
- Price: Free!
- Language: For now (v1.04) only Japanese
- How to use: Click at the bottom right buttom to start measure. The tickbox on the bottom left will activate reading at full speed, else at ~12-15X. Note that with SANYO based drives (that includes their branded OEM), reading at full speed will produce non reliable results...LiteOn based drives will work ok even at maximum speed.


_____________________________

Canada; Leading the world in being just north of the U.S.A.

(in reply to GizmoChubs)
Post #: 15
RE: okok, make this simple for a noob. - 12/3/2002 10:20:18 PM   
GizmoChubs

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 11/19/2001
From: United Arab Emirates
Status: offline
sigh, program crashes as soon as I run it.

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Post #: 16
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