Tages defeated! Finally???

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Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/12/2002 4:42:16 AM

Clint

Posts: 2190
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline

Tages CD copy protection system, has been untill now (?) uncopyable, that is untill recent times...

A news posting at CDFreaks has revieled a rather interesting new *theory* that when put in practice, they claim to have defeated Tages in an 'unusual' method. Any drive writing RAW-DAO, 16 bytes subs, can apparently write it no problems, the huge problem is the reading part, requiring the disc to be read normally as well as backwards to fill in the sectors that couldn't be read normally because of the way CD drives seek, and the technology used here to protect the original Tages protected CD from unorthorised duplication (and inevetly, user safety backups) -->

Conversation Mr TechFreak (TF) and Mr BadGuy (BG):

TF: So actually any drive with RAW16 capabilities can write tages, provided it has
a correct image ?

BG: Yes, that makes tages very easy to write, but more difficult to read. Because when you want to make an iso, your program reads sectors sequentially from start to end and when you reach sector 200a, the drive expects the next sector to be 201, not 100. So the drive thinks the laser got off track and it keeps seeking forward, looking for the correct sector number (201). So you end up with an iso wich contains
only 0...100a...200a,201,...

TF: But one can make a correct image by hand, using the trick you explained ?

BG: Sure. First, you read the disc and make an image as usual. Then you read the disc backwards, and make another image. Comparing the two images will show some different sectors : just extract these sectors from the second image and insert them in the first one, just after the range of sectors with the same numbers. For extra safety you should add some dummy sectors before the range you insert, to cope with your drive's lack of precision during seeks. That's it

TF: I see... so you will actually never be able to read the first sectors of the b range due to the way seeks work. But it does not matter anyway since your drive will not be able to reach these first sectors on the original disc either. Well that's nice, because with these informations one can now quite easily make a
program to copy tages...

Well, this seems to be the most *believable" theory I have heard so far, so maybe 1:1 Tages backup software isn't too far away

...

Comments/opinions are requested, (as usual!)

below.

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Post #: 1

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/12/2002 10:08:46 AM

Laffin Assassin

Posts: 4655
Status: offline

Hey Clint
I remember someone saying it could not be done and this way of getting round Tages was known weeks ago but I never mentioned it !!!

And as I have said for Years if protection can be put on Digital Media it can always be by-passed with the Knowhow !!!

All I can say is now Bring on StarForce now you see it now you don't !!!

Laffin Assassin

Always remember to Pillage BEFORE you Burn

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 2

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/12/2002 11:24:35 AM

Tron

Posts: 1460
Joined: 3/6/2000
From: USA
Status: offline

Been saying that for years... If you can protect it, we can figure out a way around it.... I am sure that now Alcohol, CloneCD BlindWrite and others will come out with a fix.

"Ex Wife for sale, just assume payments!"

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 3

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/12/2002 12:11:13 PM

Laffin Assassin

Posts: 4655
Status: offline

Hi Tron
Yeah lets hope Plextor do with their new 48x Writer !!!

Laffin Assassin

Always remember to Pillage BEFORE you Burn

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 4

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/12/2002 3:51:47 PM

SirDavidGuy

Posts: 62
Joined: 7/25/2002
From:
Status: offline

You must also modify the header as well as the Q-Subchannel.

Note: This "Hidden Sector" approach could have repurcussions in copying CD-Cops and StarForce. See the thread at:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51970

CD Freaks Mod

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 5

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/13/2002 2:57:34 AM

Clint

Posts: 2190
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Hey Clint
I remember someone saying it could not be done and this way of getting round Tages was known weeks ago but I never mentioned it !!!
And as I have said for Years if protection can be put on Digital Media it can always be by-passed with the Knowhow !!!
All I can say is now Bring on StarForce now you see it now you don't !!!

Laffin Assassin

Always remember to Pillage BEFORE you Burn

I never said it couldn't be done in the future, I said it wasn't possible at the time I said that, and it wasn't.

I always believed Tages, StarForce can/could be defeated, I just didn't think it would be a quick process......

I also knew about it earlier, just thought about posting it for others that didn't know last night while the board wasn't very busy!!!

Yer, I agree SDG, I think this method will aslo be usefull with StarForce etc. maybe now it will open new windows for CD copy programs developers?!!

You seem content on beating CD-Cops, real bad! (which is a good thing of coarse!)

_________________
You get what you pay for...

Questions? Problems? Search for fast results!

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 6

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/14/2002 1:44:57 PM

SirDavidGuy

Posts: 62
Joined: 7/25/2002
From:
Status: offline

We at CD Freaks came up with an "official" name for these sectors (like weak sectors, bad sectors, etc.):

Twin Sectors.

CD Freaks Mod

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 7

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/26/2002 7:01:47 PM

Laffin Assassin

Posts: 4655
Status: offline

Hi Clint
You Say " I always believed Tages, StarForce can/could be defeated, I just didn't think it would be a quick process"

It would have been a very quick process if any of the Big Publishers had started to use them but seeing though they were not bothered about them neither were the guys with the know how !!!

_____________________________

Speaking Without Thinking, Is Like Shooting Without Aiming !!!

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 8

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 8/29/2002 5:27:56 PM

gobama

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

I bought this Moto Racer 3 US version game because of the new TAGES copy protection. I wanted to see whether I could copy this cd because I've copied everything prior to this one. Having said that, I'm stumped. I've wasted 8 cd-r's on this game and nothing is working. I can only select a demo version when the game is installed. Any suggestions? Having a computer desk loaded with coasters is really no fun hehe [:p]

(in reply to Clint)

Post #: 9

RE: Tages defeated! Finally??? - 11/25/2002 11:14:51 PM

pupudada

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/5/2002
From: India
Status: offline

hi all, read your posts about tages protection removal. i am a newbie, but how does one read a cd backword? an early reply from your side would be highly appreciated. please send directly at my email address, thanks tonz in advance... hope to receive your mail soon, cheers & sunshine, pupudada

baba@giascl01.vsnl.net.in