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Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/1/2002 9:14:45 AM   
robo21

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
I am returning my second 24102B for exchange. Liteon has set a new record in my personal experience as being the most problem-riddled piece of hardware I have ever worked with.

It all started about 2 weeks ago when my best friend finally convinced me to get the burner. He kept raving about how perfect it was and how he hadn't had a coaster yet. The price dropped to $80, which seemed like a reasonable price so I got one. I already had 5 burners, all of which work, so it was with some reluctance that I bought my first Liteon 24102B.

So my reseller sent me an OEM unit instead of the retail-boxed model I had ordered. I installed the unit into my AMD TBird system, which has thus far been extremely tolerant and accepting of any type of hardware I have connected to it, including each of the 5 other burners I own. Hardware incompatibility has not been an issue here.

The first issue was that the drive would not be detected by BIOS. Furthermore, the tray would not eject and the LED stayed on all of the time. Turns out the drive was DOA, but I didn't know this for sure until I had wasted many hours trying to make it work and visiting the Liteon website (Liteon's website offers virtually nothing to aid an end user in need of assistance) looking for help. By the way, I used Liteon's "Problem Report" which is a "feature" of their website, twice, the first time was 3 weeks ago. To this day, I have not received a reply to that report.

So the drive gets returned and the retail-boxed version arrives and we eagerly install it thinking and hoping that this one will be the burner of my dreams. Forget about it. This time the drive was detected in BIOS immediately. However, the tray would not eject and the LED remained lit continuously.

In doing our normal troubleshooting procedure, we determined that the digital audio cable was the culprit. If the digital audio cable were correctly connected the drive would not function correctly. So, I figured, "no big deal, I won't use the digital audio extraction."
The problems did NOT end there, however.

I tried backing up one of my games, which is protected with Safedisk v.2. First I used CloneCD. The drive ran but made no progress whatsoever during the reading. It just whirred up to full speed and then down to idle and then up to full speed and then back to idle. The progress bar never advanced beyond 0%. Naturally, I theorized that it could be the software so I tried another hallmark of burning software, Nero.

The drive still did not read, and still it continued to whir up to full speed and then down to idle, over and over again. Then I tried another game that I had previously made a backup of successfully (using a different drive), this one protected by Safedisk v.1.

This time the Liteon made a flawless and exact copy of the CD in jaw-dropping time - 12 minutes! I was ecstatic; I thought there might be hope. Wrong again. The drive still would not read Safedisk2 or SecuRom protected disks so I decided it was time to talk to the manufacturer.

I contacted Liteon and was told by the tech that Liteon Corp. was indeed aware that when a digital audio cable is connected to the drive, the drive would not function. Furthermore, I was told that Liteon has no intention of producing a fix for the problem. I was told, "The problem will not be corrected on this drive, it will be corrected in the successor model only."

Well this stinks, in fact, this is downright unethical business. These people manufacture a piece of hardware that does not function correctly and then NOT ONLY have they failed, and continue to fail, to fix the problem, they have stated that they have no intention of fixing the problem. The shameful and unforgivable aspect of this issue is that they won't even alert their customers that the problem exists!

They could, at the very least, paste a small sticker on the back of the drive warning consumers of this problem. By not alerting consumers Liteon has unequivocally and shamelessly demonstrated a callous disregard for the end users of their product. We spent hours trying to get their shoddy drive to work on the system before isolating the digital audio cable as the cause.

So not only is Liteon failing to support a drive which is currently still in production, they are knowingly allowing end users to go through the aggravation, frustration, and lost hours trying to install a drive, which if connected in one very common configuration (with the digital audio cable connected), is doomed to failure.

So people buy the drive and find out the hard way that the digital audio cable, when connected, aborts the normal functionality of the drive. Or they don't realize this is the problem and return the drive to the reseller who, in turn, returns the drive to Liteon.

Now it gets scary. There are numerous posts on various forums about this issue, which indicates the problem is widespread. Furthermore, the person I spoke with at Liteon acknowledged that the problem is with "all of the 24102B drives." Therefore, Liteon must be getting many hundreds if not thousands of drives returned (they produced and shipped 800,000 drives in November-I don't know how many of that number were the 24102B but you can be sure it was a very large percentage) so this means that Liteon is maintaining silence (no notification on, or with, new drives being shipped, and no notification on the website) on this issue for one reason - so they can maximize the profits on their bottom line by selling junk to the public. Well, there could be another reason, it could be that is cheaper for them to repack all the returns and reship them to unsuspecting buyers around the world. But again, it boils down to profit.

My bottom line is this: Liteon does NOT care about the customer beyond the initial point of sale. The absence of easily accessible tech support, alone, tells us that.

Getting back to my situation, the tech at Liteon suggested that I use a 'downgrade' of the firmware to enable the drive to read Safedisk2 and SecuRom protected disks. I first loaded the 5S07 firmware in DOS, the software reported that the flash was successful, however the drive lost all functionality and just spun with the LED now continuously glowing an angry red in color. I then tried upgrading to my original firmware, again the software reported "success" but the drive failed to return to anything resembling normal. Now the drive was, and is, completely useless.

In retrospect, I now wish I had bought the Plextor 24X when it first came out. Back then it would have copied any protected CD with ease and even do Cactus. Now, with Plextor's firmware "advancements" their drive is useless in that regard.

I would strongly urge anyone in the market for a CD burner to avoid Liteon like the proverbial plague. Unless, of course, you enjoy spending your time resolving never-ending issues. And, if you own a Liteon, by all means, call or write these masters of high tech business and ask them why? Chances are our letters and emails will continue to be unanswered because this is one company that had demonstrated, beyond any doubt, that it just wants your money and could care less about your satisfaction.

Lately, with the recent "tech-wreck" and the decline of sales volume in the high tech sector, many companies have cut their tech suppost staffing or have begun charging for tech support. Guess what? They are finding out they can get away with it because of weak-willed, spineless, sheep-like consumers accepting the trend and not withholding their dollars and/or vociferously complaining. Liteon is just one example of many.

We, as consumers, 'vote' with our dollars. As long as we spend good money for poorly manufactured goods, the manufacturer will have no incentive to upgrade their products. Obviously, (just skim through the Liteon section of this forum) Liteon has some of the worst QC (quality control) issues I have experienced.

The only way these crooked operators will ever get the message that we will not tolerate shoddily manufactured goods, that we will not tolerate poor technical support, that we will not tolerate poor after-point-of-sale warranty service, is by withholding our dollars from them and supporting companies that care for their customers. After all, business is only successful for the long-term when buyer and seller both win.

If anyone has a viable alternative I am open to suggestions.

======================================================================

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)







Edited by - robo21 on 01/01/2002 09:58:04
Post #: 1
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/1/2002 3:19:41 PM   
john

 

Posts: 4038
Joined: 12/24/2000
From: Greece
Status: offline
Interesting post i must admint

Our LiteOn drives never had problems with LED, TRAY. I must say we never seem to test the digital audio cable since most users will not need it (at least we haven't used it). Perhaps we should in future reviews.

Other users opinion is welcomed!

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority

(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 2
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/2/2002 1:16:02 AM   
robo21

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

Interesting post i must admint

Our LiteOn drives never had problems with LED, TRAY. I must say we never seem to test the digital audio cable since most users will not need it (at least we haven't used it). Perhaps we should in future reviews.

Other users opinion is welcomed!

Visit www.cdrinfo.com - The Recording Authority



Yes, John, I was shocked too, and obviously upset. I think all aspects of a drive's performance should be covered in the reviews. The time it would save the unfortunate people tha do connect this cable would be well worth it.

Plus it reveals a weakness in Liteon's customer care policy, I think.

Thank you for your reply and great adminship!


(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 3
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/2/2002 10:25:25 AM   
ROBBINSON

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 11/24/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
Funny thing I too have a story that has led me here. I bought a cenadyne 16102b off the open and returned table at microcenters in November for 64 dollars. Thought it was a good deal! Put it in and could not get bios to recognize it at all. Then I visited liteons site for help and found no answers then found this site and others with revues telling everybody its good for the money. Well I decided that someone must have had an unsuccessful flash with it and returned it and bought a brand new one based on the reviews. Put it in and did a quick hookup and made sure the bios recognized it no problems. Then hooked it up the way I wanted as secondary master and my CD-ROM as slave and I too use a DA hookup from my onboard soundcard. Then tried to burn as soon as you put in a disk even to just play. It took over the whole system freezing everything and I have a decent system 600mhz and very fast drives! Even leaving a CD in it while working slows down the system after a minute when the led goes out it is still using CPU power and sends my temps up on my CPU monitor as if playing a game and this is with the case off nothing else does this but games and virus scanning. I had the latest Nero and could only burn successful using smartburn at an hour and a half for 400mgs. So after checking liteons site and here and a few others with no cure to the burning problem I decided to update the firmware from oso9 to osoe. That worked tremendously I was able to burn without smartburn on and at speed still a little buggy but still 100% better. Just last night I couldn’t figure out why my soundcard wouldn’t play in DA the analog on the CD-ROM worked fine then I took a look behind the Cdr. and realized I mistakenly put the DA line on the test pins and hooked it up correctly. Whala guess what bios would not detect it bios returned non-ataipe device or hung on pressing auto detect. I thought what the hell so I reversed it DA on the CD-ROM and analog on the Cdr. thought maybe I screwed it up with putting it on the test pins.
Came to this site right after and found your post and waited till this morning to post. If it wasn’t for me hooking DA up incorrectly I would of returned the new one like the first one when I did it correctly or worse flashed my bios thinking something was wrong with my machine since this is my first Cdr. why have I not seen any other post on this here or on any other site till just now? Liteon should definitely have this on their trouble shooting pages but no also absent from their forum proubly
Them editing it out terrible. I cant understand why this is not caught in reviews since most people use a Cdr. and CD-ROM and only have one analog connector on their soundcards and would hook up the second to DA

P.S. if this happens on yours and my model then its most likely on all their models. why was'nt this caught in this forum?


LIFE IS HELL BUT WHAT ELSE IS THERE!

Edited by - ROBBINSON on 01/02/2002 10:31:02

(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 4
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/3/2002 1:41:27 AM   
robo21

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

Funny thing I too have a story that has led me here. I bought a cenadyne 16102b off the open and returned table at microcenters in November for 64 dollars. Thought it was a good deal! Put it in and could not get bios to recognize it at all. Then I visited liteons site for help and found no answers then found this site and others with revues telling everybody its good for the money. Well I decided that someone must have had an unsuccessful flash with it and returned it and bought a brand new one based on the reviews. Put it in and did a quick hookup and made sure the bios recognized it no problems. Then hooked it up the way I wanted as secondary master and my CD-ROM as slave and I too use a DA hookup from my onboard soundcard. Then tried to burn as soon as you put in a disk even to just play. It took over the whole system freezing everything and I have a decent system 600mhz and very fast drives! Even leaving a CD in it while working slows down the system after a minute when the led goes out it is still using CPU power and sends my temps up on my CPU monitor as if playing a game and this is with the case off nothing else does this but games and virus scanning. I had the latest Nero and could only burn successful using smartburn at an hour and a half for 400mgs. So after checking liteons site and here and a few others with no cure to the burning problem I decided to update the firmware from oso9 to osoe. That worked tremendously I was able to burn without smartburn on and at speed still a little buggy but still 100% better. Just last night I couldn’t figure out why my soundcard wouldn’t play in DA the analog on the CD-ROM worked fine then I took a look behind the Cdr. and realized I mistakenly put the DA line on the test pins and hooked it up correctly. Whala guess what bios would not detect it bios returned non-ataipe device or hung on pressing auto detect. I thought what the hell so I reversed it DA on the CD-ROM and analog on the Cdr. thought maybe I screwed it up with putting it on the test pins.
Came to this site right after and found your post and waited till this morning to post. If it wasn’t for me hooking DA up incorrectly I would of returned the new one like the first one when I did it correctly or worse flashed my bios thinking something was wrong with my machine since this is my first Cdr. why have I not seen any other post on this here or on any other site till just now? Liteon should definitely have this on their trouble shooting pages but no also absent from their forum proubly
Them editing it out terrible. I cant understand why this is not caught in reviews since most people use a Cdr. and CD-ROM and only have one analog connector on their soundcards and would hook up the second to DA

P.S. if this happens on yours and my model then its most likely on all their models. why was'nt this caught in this forum?


LIFE IS HELL BUT WHAT ELSE IS THERE!

Edited by - ROBBINSON on 01/02/2002 10:31:02



That's good work! You tracked it down, accidently, but you did it. Yes there should be a warning either in the documentation or on the drive about this DA issue. I wasted a lot of time figuring mine out.

This is the reason I have blasted Liteon on these pages, the chief person in their CD-RW department told me that they have been aware that this is a problem with all of their drives for a long time. But yet, they post NOTHING in the way of a warning for their customers.

Why not put a sticker on the drive or a posting on their website? I don't know, they just won't do it. Furthermore, the tech told me that they have no intention of either fixing the hardware or the firmware to correct this issue.

If it's not too late you may want to return that drive as well and get a different brand. That's what I have been forced to do. I really had hoped that Liteon 24102B would be everything that all of its supporters had said it would be. Face it, they had to cut costs somewhere to get the price so low.

It's bad enough they won't fix the drive but it's unforgivable that they don't post warnings and workarounds!

One thing is for sure, it's very difficult to get something for nothing in today's marketplace. If the price is very low, usually it's for a reason: "They cut corners."

At this point I have spent about 16 hours of my time trying to make 2 different Liteon drives work on any one of 3 different systems. Still, I was unable to get one to work as it is supposed to. If I value my time conservatively at $25 per hour, that's $400 extra I could spend on a burner.

I should have bought the better burner to begin with. I too have trouble resisting an apparent "bargain." I learned the hard way too. But I am shocked and disappointed that Liteon can get away with such shoddy workmanship in this day and age.

Robo

PS. John, the admin here, told me that they do not test the DA on burners when they review them. Probably they saw no need to in the past. Now, with John's help and our input, I think that this will change. Who knew? Only Liteon knew and they aren't talking.

=====================================================================

"It could be worse...."
Unknown

"The most powerful factors in the world are clear ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will."

J. Arthur Thomson





Edited by - robo21 on 01/03/2002 01:46:47

(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 5
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/6/2002 3:08:14 PM   
freonchill

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/25/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
robo21,

quote:
The first issue was that the drive would not be detected by BIOS. Furthermore, the tray would not eject and the LED stayed on all of the time. Turns out the drive was DOA


i had that problem initially too, i changed it from master to slave, change power & data cables, then i realized that it was the digital-audio cable - i saw in another forum (dont remember where) if you connect 2 of those 'non-labeled' pins and update the firmware, that its all good. havent taken the time to do it yet, didnt bother me that much. and before you go saying that shouldnt have to be done... plextor 121032a, took about 95% of my resources in windows till i added the 'jumper hack' and then it went down to 23%, so they all have problems.

also, the spin up/down when reading the first part of a SD2 disc is what the drive does, if you have hte option for the amplify weak, well it really doesnt matter, i have made a copy of an SD2 using my liteon 24x w/ fast error skip 0, none and it works w/ or w/out amplify weak and i can read anything i have tried in under 10min. as for before, i was using fast error skip 3,hardware and it did that and took like an hour.

Pi.


Edited by - freonchill on 01/06/2002 15:35:25

(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 6
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/7/2002 3:03:24 AM   
robo21

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
Hi Freon,

Thanks for the info, you didn't specify which pins to jumper for the flash. I know I have seen info on that flash method too, but it was in relation to a 16X Liteon burner I believe. Maybe it works on the 24X as well. I hope so, this whole ordeal has been costly in money, time and energy.

Liteon is Litesout for me until they get their act together.


(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 7
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 1/8/2002 12:10:19 AM   
freonchill

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 3/25/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
sorry, i didnt see anything about the 16x in your original post
i was talking about the jumpering to allow the digital audio cable to work - i think i either posted it, or read it in here about getting it to work (wanna say pins 2&3 or 2&4, but dont quote me on that). it was just that you had to do that and flash your firmware up to X (where X was a certain firmware or newer)

i personally havent flashed mine yet, accept the digital audio cable problem, i havent had a problem, the reading spin up/down was kinda annoying, but after i tried one w/ fast error skip 0,none and it worked - i was like fux the long read time (that or just did the same setting on my plextor 121032a (max 10min for anything, any protection, any cd, any cdr, any cdrw) and it still worked fine burned w/ my liteon.) the only coaster i had made was b/c i made a copy of a securom2 disc and didnt do 'dont repair subchannel' so it wouldnt work, but that was my fault, not the burners.


Pi.


Edited by - freonchill on 01/08/2002 00:13:24

(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 8
RE: Warning! Liteon 24102B=Shoddy, Inconsistant, Junk - 2/6/2002 6:54:19 PM   
CrocTJ

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 10/1/2001
From: Mexico
Status: offline
I think i might have found the solution to my problems!!! i recently bought a SB Audigy drive and i conected one of the Audio cables to my LTR 24102B (the other to my Pioneer 106S DVD). Since then i have been making coasters with it under win2k and burning at like 8x under XP. I'll let you know if disconnecting the cable fixes my problems. Thanks for that indepth report!!!

Croc!

Edit... I took out the DC cable, tried nero and im still geting Hardware Failure

any new suggestions?




Edited by - CrocTJ on 02/06/2002 20:33:25

(in reply to robo21)
Post #: 9
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