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"Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/16/2005 12:02:27 PM   
nwarawa

 

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Okay, this post may have to split into two down the road, but I (as I'm sure many others) want to find out three things:

(1)Which media has the best scratch resistance?
(2)Which scratch resistant media has the best dye/longativity?
(3)Where do we buy this media?

So far, I noticed four brands on the scratch resistant bandwagon:

-Maxell ("Pro" series of DVDs and CDs, "Triple coated" or something like that)
-TDK (Scratchproof/Armor Plated/Super Hard Coat/Durabis... DVDs only so far, I think)
-Verbatim ("VideoGuard" DVDs)
-Memorex ("Duralayer" DVDs)

In London Drugs (Dolphinius_Rex, take note) I saw the Maxells, both CDs and DVDs, and they were all "Made in Japan".  Sounds nice.  I might give them a try.  I also noticed bestbuy.com has the Verbatim "VideoGuard" DVDs now, which I'm fairly excited about, since Verbatim has typically made good media.

I have been trying to find a source for the TDKs and the Memorexes, but to no avail.  I haven't heard any solid reviews about the dye on the TDKs so far, only that "their standard DVDs use crappy CMC, so these probably will as well".  Can anyone confirm this?

Anyone else have further input?


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/16/2005 12:12:12 PM   
nwarawa

 

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Another thought just popped into my head:

RW!

Whether it be DVDs or CDs, all my RWs get the most handling (for obvious reasons), and thus are scratched up and made unusable far quicker than I would like.  Anyone know of any scratch resistant RW media?

(brain fart: maybe they don't want to make scratchproof RW media... then we wouldn't have to keep buying them!)

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/16/2005 3:11:22 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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Hrm... for indistructible media, the best you'll find for CD-Rs is media with extra protective layers on the top, like Mitsui's diamond coat, and the Maxell Pro line which uses Taiyo Yuden with an extra layer of protection.

For DVDRs, you're best off looking for the hardened coat discs, which usually have it applied to the bottom of the disc. I think www.blankmedia.ca might have some of this hardend coat media now, but possibly only in the MINI vareity. I know Maxell has it for their Pro and Broadcast Quality line of products. Only TDK and another manufacturer have DVDRWs with a hardened coat that I'm aware of., and the "other manufacturer" has not decided to release the product yet, so I can't tell you who


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/17/2005 3:19:16 AM   
emperor


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For CD/DVD media TDK has scratchproof media so maybe you can try them

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/18/2005 3:27:13 PM   
nwarawa

 

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Further research is disturbing me.  By the sounds of it, many of the various protective layers seem to only protect one side or the other, not both.  I had some Mitsui's back in the day that were great... until the unprotected film on the top started to bubble and peel off.  Thus, protection on the top is fairly important, but the bottom of my CDs and DVDs seem to get the brunt of the damage, showing oodles of scratches.  This desription of the Mitsui's diamond coat makes it sound like it's only a protective top coat (because it talks about printing and adhersion):

http://www.inkjetart.com/mitsui/

Diamond Coat® Protective Surface

  • Applied over the "industry standard" coating for additional protection not offered by other manufacturers.
  • Approved for use with the most popular thermal printer(s).
  • Provides an optimum surface for high-resolution printing and improved adhesion.
  • Enhanced toughness and durability to withstand physical and environmental assaults that would destroy lesser discs.


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/18/2005 4:03:27 PM   
emperor


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probably you cannot have much success protecting your CDs from scratches at the bottom, try to make careful use and keep backups

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/18/2005 5:12:27 PM   
nwarawa

 

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Okay, after contacting the companies, here's some confirmation about parts of the disc that are protected:

Verbatim: whole disc (top and bottom)

Memorex: CSR: "Umm.. ahhh... you mean dual layer, sir?"  Me: "D-U-R-A layer, there was a press release on it."  CSR: "Well, umm... the press release must be all the information available right now for the public then..."

Mitsui: awaiting response

TDK: awaiting response

Maxell: top side only

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/18/2005 5:15:22 PM   
nwarawa

 

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I was hoping the term "coat" meant it was going over the whole disc, but Mitsui's diamond coat seems to be top-only according to this :

http://www.mam-a.com/technology/index.html

Other than Verbatim, looks like the only hope for a reinforced polycarbonate is in TDK's hand... I hope that this is the case... HURRY UP AND EMAIL ME TDK!



< Message edited by nwarawa -- 5/18/2005 5:17:53 PM >

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/18/2005 5:34:12 PM   
nwarawa

 

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Emperor,

I regards to your last post, it's not about making backups, its about not having to replace disc after disc because the kids were messing with them, or because you're trying to swap a CD while driving and you just have to drop them on the seat or floor.


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/18/2005 6:06:12 PM   
nwarawa

 

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w00t!

Just got off the phone with MAM-A/Mitsui, and they said that while they haven't had any bottom-protection up until now, today they are demoing their new "DiamondGuard" (as opposed to top-only diamond-coat) discs somewhere today, which will cover the whole disc.  They said they will be able to have these in retail "soon". 

Moist with anticipation...


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/24/2005 1:11:41 AM   
nwarawa

 

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Okay, got the email from TDK.  The tough coating is only on the bottom... they say the top is more durable than CDs to begin with.  According to them, they make the whole disc right now, but may just start coating other brands later (please... no CMC...).

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/24/2005 1:17:26 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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TDK is right, the top is MUCH more durable on DVDRs then CD-Rs, and there is very little to worry about. On CD-Rs the top was MUCH more volitile then the bottom of the disc, so it was the top priority (no pun intended) when it came to extra protection.

A top duracoating for a DVDR sounds like an excellent way for companies to charge more money while doing nothing of any real importance


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/25/2005 2:43:36 PM   
svcd_player

 

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Hey everyone,
I'm a noobie to this site and found this post while looking for info on TDK. I do a lot of svcd work and hate all the scratches. I found something right before I found all you folks. I'm not sure what to think of it so I thought I would ask those that might have some idea what this is all about. I guess these discs have some sort of hump along with a coating. If they work I think it would be cool. I haven't seen them anywhere for sale. I hope they are soon.

Here is the site:  http://www.scratchlessdisc.com


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/30/2005 12:45:38 AM   
nwarawa

 

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Just picked up some of the Verbatim DVD-Rs with "VideoGard"

Media Code:  MCC 02RG20   (Mitsubishi)

Dolphin, I have been hearing mixed results on these Mitsubishis... any thoughts?  I have a Plextor 708A, and I'm hearing that any data past 4.1GB has gobs of errors... I'll be able to test this soon enough.

As for the effectiveness of the coating... so far, I'm sold.  I took a standard Ritek R03 disc alongside one of the Verbatims.  Here's the every-day tests I tried and the results:

Fingerprints: Both didn't prevent them, and both departed with the grease after a few wipes.

Shirt-wiping: Using a 100% cotton shirt, I wiped off the fingerprints.  The Ritek had a number of very fine scratches.  The Verbatim came out un-scathed.

Floor-hockey: I lightly flicked each disc a few times across my low-pile floor.  The Ritek didn't get much in the scratches, but did pick up a fair bit of lint.  The Verbatim came out with no scratches whatsoever, and had only a small amount of lint.

Floor-rub:  This time I applied a bit of pressure with my foot and dragged the discs about half-a-foot on the same carpet.  Same lint problem with the Ritec, but it got pretty scratched up this time.  The Verbatim made it with hardly any lint, and no visible scratches.

I also have a GameDoctor... perhaps I should see if it could repair the Verbatim disc if it ever DOES get damaged.... hmmm...

In any case, the tests I show so far are promising.  The worst physical torture most users will ever put their discs through is accidently stepping on them and dragging them across the floor... and as you can see, the Verbatims past the test.  Screw taking an SOS pad to it... who the hell would do that in a normal situation?

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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 5/31/2005 12:55:16 PM   
Dolphinius_Rex


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The only problem with Verbatim media is their outsourcing.... but their own media is quite good usually. And Verbatim tends to either manufacture or keep a close eye on the outsourcing for all their specialized products (like Video Guard or Film Reel DVDs). So they'll probably be fine.


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RE: "Indestructable" media: which is best? - 6/3/2005 1:12:44 AM   
nwarawa

 

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Everywhere seems to be out of the TDK discs, but ironically I stumbled upon them at the last retailer you'd expect to carry anything of quality...

...Radioshack...

They were "clearing them out" for $5.99Cdn a piece for the 2x DVD-R (ouch... but MSRP is $5.99US... the singles are a rip-off), but since I only needed one to test, I'll live.

The disc code identifies this as TDK's own.  As for the dye used... I'll have to check with TDK.  I'll do a burn quality test between it and the Verbatim on my Plextor 708, then I'll do some scratch tests and see which holds up better.  It's far from exhaustive, but at least it'll give us an idea.  I'll post the rough results here, then post a cleaned-up version on shinynewtoys.com

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