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InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 7/31/2003 4:45:08 AM   
Paul Cao

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: USA
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I tried to use InCD packet writing to format and drag/drop files from my Hard-drive to my DVD+RW disc for data backup purpose. The task stalled after just a few seconds...

The sw works fine when dragging/dropping a directory with a few files. However, when dragging a very large dir (such as backing up a work dir), the files-copying animation is Window stopped and everything is frozen. I am using Win XP. When using the task manager(CTRL/ALT/DEL) to check the status, window indicates that my DVD drive is not responding (again it works fine with small amount of files).

I know the backup could take half an hour, however, I don't expect the animated "COPY: pages flying" in window to stop as well as the "Not responding" status in task manager.

Reversed copying large dir files from DVD+ to my harddrive was OK. It seems like that the InCD packet writing tool CANNOT handle the large amount of data accumulated in its writing buffer.... This seems to be unacceptable at all. After all, copying process shoud not be stalled just because the DVD file writing is much slower than Harddrive read/write.

Can someone shares your experiences and/or knowledge on this subject.

Thanks a lot in advance.
Post #: 1
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 7/31/2003 10:49:03 AM   
dburg

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: Germany
Status: offline
Can you precise what device and firmware revision you are using, as well as which InCD version?


_____________________________

David Burg
Software Development,
InCD Project Leader

Nero AG
Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad
Germany

fax: +49 (0)7248 928 299

email: dburg@nero.com
http://www.nero.com

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 2
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/1/2003 3:59:02 AM   
Paul Cao

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:
Originally posted by dburg

Can you precise what device and firmware revision you are using, as well as which InCD version?



I need will check on the software revision tonight when I get home and check my computer.

In general, I bought the DVD+ drive a week ago from BestBuy. It is a Memorex 4X/2X DVD+. The drive was made by NEC (will check on the exact model number tonight) and came with bundled Nero/InCD sw.

Dburg, I have read quite a few notes you have written in this forum and I do appreciate very much your response here. Definitely, you are one of the most qualified person around here. Anyways, before I can get back with details hw/sw versions, can I ask some more general question here:

(1) From your response, it appears to me that InCD packet SHOULD work properly regardless of the target device write-speed(a 2x DVD+ RW write speed) and the file size (a directory or large number of files).... Is it true?

(2) From your response, it seems like this is an isolated case where the hw (DVD drive or DVD disc) could be a source of the problem? Is it true?

(3) A few of the posts in this forum suggested that InCD 3.5 might be a better choice. I don't know yet what InCD version I have yet but a visit to the InCD web site shows that there is only one version of InCD to be downloaded. If not, could you provide a link to said download page.... where Version 3.5 can be downloaded.

(4) I am excited to have the capability to use the DVD disc (~4G size) as a cheap and convenient way to backup data.... However, this packet writing problem is quite discouraging to me. I bought this DVD with the intent to backup/write data files more than just to burn movie-DVDs, so, I hope that this is a specific hw/sw problem rather than a general LIMITED CAPABILITY with InCD Packet Writing sw.

I hated to use Nero to burn the data files (i.e. I have to erase and re-burn the entire disc again if what I want is just to add only a few more files...to the disc or to use Synchonize_it! to sync my data data). The drag-drop "just like accessing the floppy disc or HD" is an appealing feature to me (not much of drag/drop feature but more of how easy to APPEND/DELET/ADD files to an existing data DVD-disc.

May I ask this question, say if this problem cannot be resolved, is there another type of application s/w that would allow me to access my DVD-RW disc like a hard-drive/floppy disc (I mean other than Packet Writing method).

Thanks a lot in advance. I do really appreciate to have a professional like you answering questions in this forum.


(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 3
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/1/2003 5:41:56 AM   
Laffin Assassin


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Hi Paul and Welcome to Our Forum
Yes we all really appreciate having David around and not to forget our Old Pal Craig from Ahead as well some times we really do need them !!!
Ahead are the only Company apart from Yamaha and Plextor who even bother to visit our Forum to give Help when it is needed!!!


_____________________________

Speaking Without Thinking, Is Like Shooting Without Aiming !!!

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 4
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/1/2003 10:19:01 AM   
Paul Cao

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:
Originally posted by dburg

Can you precise what device and firmware revision you are using, as well as which InCD version?




Dburg,

My InCD packet sw version: 3.5.19.2
DVD+RW drive: NEC DVD+RW ND-1100A
Win OS: Win XP Professional, version 5.1 Build 2600
HW: P4 CPU 1.7 GHz
DVD+RW media manufacturer: Philips DVD rated 2.4X

I hope this could provide enough info to help pinpoint the HD-->DVD+RW writing problem. I wonder if the writing was still going on normally even though the window stalled the FLYING pAGES or the task manager reports "not responding".

Unlike DVD-, I know that DVD+ formats the disc in the background when the system idles... I have one more question as follows.

In this case, the HD-to-DVD copying is going on full throttle, this formatting, therefore, CANNOT be done in the background. Could this supposely formatting-in-the-background which now must be inserted in the middle of packet writing cause any problem? (in this case, isn't formatting in advance like DVD-RW formating be preferred? I am not sure what happen so I just shoot out a bunch of what if.... I hope you can excuse me for that....

Thanks in advance.

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 5
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/4/2003 5:25:42 PM   
dburg

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: Germany
Status: offline
Ah, I'm sorry but I can't help much with InCD 3.x (unlike with 4.0 where I can).

But I can also help for general question like your:

"Unlike DVD-, I know that DVD+ formats the disc in the background when the system idles... I have one more question as follows.

In this case, the HD-to-DVD copying is going on full throttle, this formatting, therefore, CANNOT be done in the background. Could this supposely formatting-in-the-background which now must be inserted in the middle of packet writing cause any problem? "

There will be a performance drop in case the copying is going full throttle thus using more space than was already (background) formatted. Although, this is supported by the DVD+RW standard and the device will "de-iced" (aka format) on request the needed additionnal space. This is causing a (bit) higher write time but not an hang at all. It should not be the root of your current problem.


_____________________________

David Burg
Software Development,
InCD Project Leader

Nero AG
Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad
Germany

fax: +49 (0)7248 928 299

email: dburg@nero.com
http://www.nero.com

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 6
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/4/2003 8:43:14 PM   
Paul Cao

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:
Originally posted by dburg

Ah, I'm sorry but I can't help much with InCD 3.x (unlike with 4.0 where I can).

But I can also help for general question like your:

"Unlike DVD-, I know that DVD+ formats the disc in the background when the system idles... I have one more question as follows.

In this case, the HD-to-DVD copying is going on full throttle, this formatting, therefore, CANNOT be done in the background. Could this supposely formatting-in-the-background which now must be inserted in the middle of packet writing cause any problem? "

There will be a performance drop in case the copying is going full throttle thus using more space than was already (background) formatted. Although, this is supported by the DVD+RW standard and the device will "de-iced" (aka format) on request the needed additionnal space. This is causing a (bit) higher write time but not an hang at all. It should not be the root of your current problem.



Dburg,

I still have the following questions unanswered. Could you help give me a general sense as what I can expect from this InCD packet writing stuff.

(1) From your very first response, it appears to me that InCD packet SHOULD work properly regardless of the target device write-speed(a 2x DVD+ RW write speed) and the file size (a directory or large number of files).... Is it true?

(2) From your response, it seems like this is an isolated case where the hw (DVD drive or DVD disc) could be a source of the problem? Is it true? That is, a normal user with InCD s/w and a DVD+rw drive should be able to backup large files to DVD+ with no problem. Is this correct?

(3) If I upgrade to InCD packet 4.x, I should not have any of these problems. Is it true?

(4) I am excited to have the capability to use the DVD disc (~4G size) as a cheap and convenient way to backup data.... However, this packet writing problem is quite discouraging to me. I bought this DVD with the intent to backup/write data files more than just to burn movie-DVDs, so, I hope that this is a specific hw/sw problem rather than a general LIMITED CAPABILITY with InCD Packet Writing sw.

(5) say if this problem cannot be resolved, is there another type of application s/w that would allow me to access my DVD-RW disc like a hard-drive/floppy disc (I mean other than Packet Writing method).

Thanks a lot in advance!

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 7
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/8/2003 8:46:00 PM   
dburg

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: Germany
Status: offline
(1) From your very first response, it appears to me that InCD packet SHOULD work properly regardless of the target device write-speed(a 2x DVD+ RW write speed) and the file size (a directory or large number of files).... Is it true?

As long as the recorder is compatible with the media used (you can't use a 2x DVD media in a 1x DVD-recorder, and alike, and some recorder have some media-brant-specific compatibility issue (to be checked on manufacturer website)), and the total size of the files fits into the media size, yes, this is true.

(2) From your response, it seems like this is an isolated case where the hw (DVD drive or DVD disc) could be a source of the problem? Is it true? That is, a normal user with InCD s/w and a DVD+rw drive should be able to backup large files to DVD+ with no problem. Is this correct?

This is correct. As said, there are some not-so-rare cases of drive vs disc compatibility issues. Notice that some manufacturers publish an official list of tested and certified compatible medias on they website.

(3) If I upgrade to InCD packet 4.x, I should not have any of these problems. Is it true?

Should not. But sometimes there is still problems and in these cases we will try to solve it as quick as possible once we know and can reproduce the issue in our labs.

(4) I am excited to have the capability to use the DVD disc (~4G size) as a cheap and convenient way to backup data.... However, this packet writing problem is quite discouraging to me. I bought this DVD with the intent to backup/write data files more than just to burn movie-DVDs, so, I hope that this is a specific hw/sw problem rather than a general LIMITED CAPABILITY with InCD Packet Writing sw.

---. You are definitively allowed to expect this as a minimum.

(5) say if this problem cannot be resolved, is there another type of application s/w that would allow me to access my DVD-RW disc like a hard-drive/floppy disc (I mean other than Packet Writing method).

I think that unfortunately Packet Writing is the only existing floppy-disc-like solution of the market. In case you are still unlucky with InCD 4, you should give a chance to competitors packet-writing solutions. But let's first try InCD 4, shouldn't we?


_____________________________

David Burg
Software Development,
InCD Project Leader

Nero AG
Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad
Germany

fax: +49 (0)7248 928 299

email: dburg@nero.com
http://www.nero.com

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 8
RE: InCD packet write problems... HD to DVD - 8/12/2003 6:39:39 AM   
Paul Cao

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:
Originally posted by dburg

(1) From your very first response, it appears to me that InCD packet SHOULD work properly regardless of the target device write-speed(a 2x DVD+ RW write speed) and the file size (a directory or large number of files).... Is it true?

As long as the recorder is compatible with the media used (you can't use a 2x DVD media in a 1x DVD-recorder, and alike, and some recorder have some media-brant-specific compatibility issue (to be checked on manufacturer website)), and the total size of the files fits into the media size, yes, this is true.

(2) From your response, it seems like this is an isolated case where the hw (DVD drive or DVD disc) could be a source of the problem? Is it true? That is, a normal user with InCD s/w and a DVD+rw drive should be able to backup large files to DVD+ with no problem. Is this correct?

This is correct. As said, there are some not-so-rare cases of drive vs disc compatibility issues. Notice that some manufacturers publish an official list of tested and certified compatible medias on they website.

(3) If I upgrade to InCD packet 4.x, I should not have any of these problems. Is it true?

Should not. But sometimes there is still problems and in these cases we will try to solve it as quick as possible once we know and can reproduce the issue in our labs.

(4) I am excited to have the capability to use the DVD disc (~4G size) as a cheap and convenient way to backup data.... However, this packet writing problem is quite discouraging to me. I bought this DVD with the intent to backup/write data files more than just to burn movie-DVDs, so, I hope that this is a specific hw/sw problem rather than a general LIMITED CAPABILITY with InCD Packet Writing sw.

---. You are definitively allowed to expect this as a minimum.

(5) say if this problem cannot be resolved, is there another type of application s/w that would allow me to access my DVD-RW disc like a hard-drive/floppy disc (I mean other than Packet Writing method).

I think that unfortunately Packet Writing is the only existing floppy-disc-like solution of the market. In case you are still unlucky with InCD 4, you should give a chance to competitors packet-writing solutions. But let's first try InCD 4, shouldn't we?



David,

Thanks a lot the detailed answers.... I am certainly encouraged from your answer... I will try to install the latest IncD-4 to see how it works for my system/driver/disc-media combo.

Again, I appreciate a lot your help. Will let everyone know how this comes out.

(in reply to Paul Cao)
Post #: 9
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