CMC Media agreement (Full Version)

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rjw -> CMC Media agreement (10/16/2002 9:28:14 PM)

Okay I am getting tired these days of the battle about CMC between Doplhinius_Rex and many other users including some wise thinking moderators [:D]

Now anyone may have his own ideas. But please build it on facts and show this facts.
While Doplhinius_Rex might have never showed me the WSES results of this great CMC media he used. He still can claim arround 300 succesfull burns with CMC Magnetics media. And I actually believe that he was that damm lucky.[:D] So CMC Magnetics worked for him so far.

However we should also be aware that a lot of test results and a lot of users have had many problems with CMC disc's even new disc's score not as good as the competition. By the way the problem isn't with 65+ only and it isn't only about burning errors.
1 If you know enough about ZONE CLV. Then you might know that most writers have problems with 2 zones if the aren't very compatible with the media. This is the first zone and the last zone. So you get high errors in the begining and in the end.
2 A lot of CMC disc's also have mechanical errors.(example Ofice Depot)Very bad centrated disc's or very curved disc's. You cannot see this but this is very bad for good compatibility and life of your disc and drive.

Now If I can set it up. Then can we agree the following.

If I would be able to set up the following tests.
1- Quality test done with a profesional analyzer of the so called A-grade CMC Magnetics media Dolphinius_Rex sells.
2- The outside aging test( which I have done befor with some brands and in which CMC didn't score okay. They couldn't last 5 weeks outside my home without error increasement.)/maybe even a profesional aging test. (If this is going to be the case then the rules will change and you will notice. But don't expect me able to go this far. But maybe I can be even that lucky.)

Then would Dolphinius_Rex be so nice to ship me 3 empty disc's just for testing use.

Would we then all take note of these results including an interpretation done by me and them come to a real saying for how good these disc's really are. If they score good I won't flame them down and I expect the same from the so called moderators and other people.
If they are bad I don't want to hear/see any posting about how good these disc's are.

So can we agree on that [?]









eddy2 -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/17/2002 12:38:18 AM)

vebatim datalife cdr's seem to be of good quality, but i have the feeling they are cmc's top of the line disc.

i have some old philips discs made by cmc that i wrote a few years ago that still work. so theyre not all bad. seems that most media made by cmc is of a poor quality though.



Dolphinius_Rex -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/17/2002 12:54:11 AM)

Sounds good, I'm in. Just tell me where to to send them!



MP3Mogul -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/17/2002 1:05:50 AM)

Yes I too agree, the CMC battle has gone on TOO long. I have used the CMC discs, and the ones that I have used are cheap and have extreme data loss problems. This is from EXPERIENCE, not just talk. CMC can do whatever to try improve the discs they want, but it will not get me back as a customer, they did not even stand behind their product that I purchased in the first place. We (moderators) like to let users in the forum know, especially "new" users that most (MOST) users have had problems with CMC media, as I and other moderators are not the only people that have had problems with CMC media.

We respect and thank you for your informative posts that you have added to the forum. However, please also respect the moderators in the forum, they have been appointed for a reason. There are alot of informative posts throughout the forum, not just the media sections.

Once again, thank you for your informative posts, however, CMC media seems to currently be at the "bottom of the barrell" and not a wise choice for "most" users in the forum. That, once again said, is why we do not recommend this media.



Laffin Assassin -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/17/2002 1:17:13 AM)

Well MP3Mogul has taken the words out of my mouth so there is nothing else for me to add except I agree with him Entirely !!!
I will just ask you one thing though rjw what do you mean by some wise thinking moderators and also so called moderators [?]



Dolphinius_Rex -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/17/2002 4:25:21 AM)

MP3 Mogul: Just wondering, do you really consider CMC worse then DST??? every DST I've burned has a BLER of 20% or more, whereas every CMC I've burned has a BLER of <2% (excepting the 1 5% I had). I had to pull DST off of my store shelves because half our customers burners wouldn't even recognize them, and those that could got lousy burns (see above). I mean, CMCs not THAT bad.



rjw -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/17/2002 3:02:43 PM)

1 About the testing. As soon as I have got an agreement with the people who have the analyzer. I will let you know personally were to ship your disc's.

2 ABOUT BLER - It is incorrect to state that the BLER ratio is below 2 procent. Since the measurements done with NERO speed do not count E11/E21 errors. If we're talking about BLER you also need to count these errors. Also there is a big doubt about the accuracy of the results of NERO CD SPEED and WSES.

3 About the so called moderators and wise moderators
This has nothing to do with the topic. And will I will mail the people involved personally about it as soon as I have some time.



MP3Mogul -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/18/2002 12:47:34 AM)

Dolphinius, I have not used DST discs, because of advise that I have received, and obviously it is true due to your posting. I only use top quality media. I mean when you change the oil in your car would you use the oil that you drained from your lawn mower 6 years ago to put back in your car? Basically the same comparison, take care of your investment, and your investment will take care of you.



Dolphinius_Rex -> RE: CMC Media agreement (10/18/2002 8:52:18 PM)

MP3 Mogul: Well, I'm glad we can at least agree on that [:D]



rjw -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/19/2002 10:35:06 PM)

Here we go. [8D]
Yesterday I got the CMC disc's Dolphinius Rex sells and which are good according to him.
It looks like he really stands after the product he sells.

Now let me first tell you the following I have debated with many online stores about there home brands and the quality of the disc's.
Never before would a online-store let me test there store brand media profesionally except for Dolphinius Rex store. So even if the disc's might turn out bad I think still that Enovation Media at least should be respected for having the guts to test there media the profesional way.

Now there was a lot of debate over this "A" grade CMC Magnetics disc's. As I promised you I should try to do some serious testing. Profesional style and not WSES/ UDM. So serious BLER based on complete C1/C2 errors counted when we are talking about BLER and I am proud to say that this will happen.

In a couple of days the disc's are going to be tested. We have decided to use 3 different burners for the three disc's.
To check how good the media is.
The following 3 burners are used in combination with NERO.

1 Plextor 24/10/40A (firmware 1.04) - 24x

2 Yamaha CRW-F1 (firmware 1.0D)- Yes I really want to make sure that our Yamaha fans/moderators can't complain that it still are poor disc's because I didn't burn one disc on a Yamaha and there opinion is based on other CMC Media of Cremation and other crap brands. So this one is for you guys.[:D]

One point on the Yamaha I thought of using OWSC for the yamaha but if people think it is better to choose rated speed then I could burn it at the rated 32x speed. Just post your opinion here. In 2 days the disc's will be burned so be quick.(or be dead[}:)])

3 Lite On 48125W (firmware VS08) -32x I know people would blame me if I didn't use a Lite On drive so here it is.

Dolphinius Rex was also nice enough to mail me one of the disc's with the DST ATIP. This disc will be burned at the rated 12x with my Plextor 24/10/40A and will also be tested.

I am only sorry to report that I can't do an advanced aging test. So I can only check them on writing quality of course I could test them my own outside test. Which seems to come quite close to the profesional aging tests. At least the last time that was. But based on one test I may not say that you can use it as advanced aging test.

So stay tuned for the truth about these disc's. Test results will be posted here like I promised.
I really hope that CMC finally made a good product but my expectations are not high about it. But we will find out in a couple of days.[:D]



john -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/19/2002 11:59:16 PM)

Nice! [:p]



MP3Mogul -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/20/2002 1:47:14 AM)

We look forward to the results, the anticipation is killing me! However, remember, that this test will be the result of 3 different drives... can we still consider 3 drives what "most users" would use?



Dolphinius_Rex -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/20/2002 3:25:35 AM)

I'm exited about this test! one way or the other it should solve a lot of debate [:)] I think the drive choices were good, Yamaha and Plextor for the power users, and LiteON for the average person with good taste [:D] Plus LiteON sells their burners to lot's of other brands, so I think it's a fairly rounded test. I would also like to say that if the CD-Rs don't test to be at least of decent quality, I will be asking my Boss to remove them from the regular inventory. I hope that makes some people here happy [:)]

So thank you to everyone: RJW, for taking the time to do this test, and the rest of the Forum for having patience with me, and giving this test a chance.



rjw -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/20/2002 1:38:53 PM)

Okay if you really think that any other model of Lite On would be a better choice the name it. But also state why you think that model is better than the other Lite On model. I can get my hands on the other Lite On models. (Real ones not overclocked or downgraded models)

And yes I know that these are only 3 burners and only 1 speed setting for each burner and only one program.[;)] But still I think that this is enough to tell if the media is good, okay or bad.

Now the reason why we chose these brands/models is that we know that they perform good enough to judge differences. The writing quality of all 3 is good. But not excellent like most Plextor 40/12/40 on which PowerRec II works to good. (The drive decides to fast to change strategy which results in excellent writing quality even on poor media.)or to bad like some ASUS and Philips models which have even problems with good media.
Also the 3 brands represent the market of today very good. Lite On for the copy freaks/normal users. Yamaha for the audiophiles and hard end user. Plextor for the compannies.

So anyone wo wants to change one of the named drives and to what drive do you want to change it.Let me know it. Give also a very good reason why you want to change if you can give me a very good reason I might do it. Since I can get my hands on most drives and there is still one day before the burning starts.




john -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/20/2002 7:40:25 PM)

btw which CD-R analyzer will you use? [?]



rjw -> RE: CMC Media agreement (11/20/2002 7:56:50 PM)

The analyzer used is the CDA3000 from CD Associates
The drive used is a Plextor TSI 40x cd-rom



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